GettingOnZero - Attempting to Live on Bitcoin in Germany - Update 1, 31.01.2024 \ stacker news ~bitcoin

GettingOnZero - Attempting to Live on Bitcoin in Germany - Update 1, 31.01.2024

6263 sats \ 31 comments \ @Catcher 31 Jan bitcoin

I didn't figure out how to edit the existing post after some time, so if anybody can write in the comments how to do it - I'll appreciate it.

Meanwhile I'm doing my 1st update for this post: #407777

Update 1: 31st of January

To prepare myself for tomorrow I wanted to buy bitcoin via Lightning from Coinfinity, as I had done several times before, only to find out that their current limit on Lightning purchases is a total of 50 EUR. That was an unpleasant surprise, as I wanted to avoid on-chain fees, considering I don't plan to use on-chain transactions anyway. Bummer.

So, I went to HodlHodl to buy sats there (although I had never used it, I heard some good reviews) and was surprised to see that the selling price via SEPA transfer is ~43,000 for BTC, compared to ~39,500 at the current market price.

To do it the hard way, I would need to buy it on-chain and open a Lightning channel to Bitrefill, as I plan to use them the most. However, opening a 250 EUR channel doesn't really make sense, as by the end of the week, it's going to be empty. Also, I don't have a place at the moment to buy sats via Lightning to get liquidity back on my side.

Since Coinfinity mentioned that this is a temporary issue and they will increase the limit in the future, and Relai is implementing Lightning in the near future, I decided to make a compromise.

I bought 50 EUR worth of sats at Coinfinity - 124,547 sats. Used my existing Lightning balance to have a total of 250 EUR (622,735 sats, 124,547*5 to have same result as if I bought from Coinfinity) Used 200 EUR to buy BTC on-chain to use my fiat balance as planned.

So, for the 1st week of the experiment, I have 622,735 sats. Let's go!

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41 sats \ 4 replies \ @sefiro 31 Jan

Since Coinfinity mentioned that this is a temporary issue and they will increase the limit in the future, and Relai is implementing Lightning in the near future, I decided to make a compromise.

Have you tried Pocket? They also let you buy into your Lightning wallet, Phoenix/Breez or even your own node.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @duvel 31 Jan

Thank you for the suggestion. Always looking forward to trying out alternatives that don't need accounts and are Bitcoin-only.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @sefiro 31 Jan

You’re welcome!

Yes, it’s super easy and fast, and you don’t need sign up anywhere or download anything (just your preferred wallet app maybe).

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Catcher OP 31 Jan

Right, thank you for reminding me! When they started they were accepting only Breeze and Phoenix wallets so I dismissed them as I don't use those wallets, but I see now I can use my own node, so that solves it! Thank you for the hint!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @sefiro 31 Jan

Awesome, happy to help!

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @xz 1 Feb

Curious if you've heard of https://bringin.xyz

As I have never used Not Recommending Downside. k y c is necessary. I saw some user reviews saying it's pretty good. Not sure whether I always believe social media posts though. Just dropping it here as interested to know if anyone had experience.

I guess it's comparable to https://relai.app which might been more tried and tested? Not sure how the services between the two compare, or if any better.

Surely non k y c is what you want.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Catcher OP 1 Feb

Never heard, but sounds interesting, especially paying bills. At the moment all the bills are out of my experiment as most of them are automatic SEPA withdrawals. Thanks!

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @duvel 31 Jan

Looking forward to all your updates, thank you for sharing!

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @kristapsk 31 Jan

Try RoboSats for spending EUR for BTC on Lightning directly, avoiding onchain.

So, I went to HodlHodl to buy sats there (although I had never used it, I heard some good reviews) and was surprised to see that the selling price via SEPA transfer is ~43,000 for BTC, compared to ~39,500 at the current market price.

You can always be market maker instead of taker, create your order, wait patiently and then you can earn premium you specify, instead of paying it to other traders.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Catcher OP 1 Feb

Haven't thought about it, thanks! Still quite new to P2P exchanges

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @OT 31 Jan

Try robosats next time

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Catcher OP 31 Jan

Right, I heard about them, looks like I've even installed the app on umbrel, but I forgot they exist) I will give it a try. Thanks

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 31 Jan

Yeah, if you're living off bitcoin it all needs to be lightning. Except of course the portion you want to save.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @wassersnaus 1 Feb

currently doing the same… im using phoenix to spend on bitrefill and robosats to exchange eur to btc exclusively(doesnt work with phoenix, so WoS is what i use to get around that) I would prefer to use bisq but it doesnt support LN

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Catcher OP 1 Feb

How are you dealing with stuff where bitrefill cannot help? Like bus tickets, fines, gas stations, etc.. Sounds quite stupid and obvious, but today I've suddenly realized I use money for almost every interaction in my life, it's like a glue connection all together. And switching to btc adds a lot of friction at the moment)

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @wassersnaus 1 Feb

I dont have a car but jet and aral has giftcard on Bitrefill. when I recieve Fiat once a month, I pay everything I can in one go. (rent, public transport, hello fresh, phone, internet) then the rest goes to sats. if I need to pay something more I have 2 simple options; sell my single 1/4oz gold coin or sell sats p2p. whatever gives me what I need fastest

I thought the idea jack had about using a credit card is a good one. just to be a little bit more liquid. I cut my credit card last year when I made the transition and It was alittle bit expensive

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Catcher OP 1 Feb

Oh, you are right, I missed Aral. Another problem solved, thanks;)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryotosensei 1 Feb

Cool. Seems like you will reach one million sats before we know it

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @megaptera 1 Feb

Are you familiar with the DACH einundzwanzig movment? There is a p2p channel in telegram which you could use for p2p trades. I'll send you the invite link as a DM. If someone else likes to have the link, just tell me, don't like to share it publicly as there are to many scamers around.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Catcher OP 1 Feb

Thank you, no, I haven't heard about it before.

420 sats \ 1 reply \ @megaptera 1 Feb

https://einundzwanzig.space/

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Catcher OP 1 Feb

Wow, thanks, many useful links, just need to work a little bit on my German;)

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @0348090484 31 Jan

On hodlhodl you can find or offer btc to LN btc and buy this way, and the rate is almost the same if not cheaper depending on the on chain fees

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Catcher OP 31 Jan

I was not able to find a market price there, maybe it depends on the type of payment or country, I don't know.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @0348090484 31 Jan

Im talking btc to ln btc... but anyway you can create an offer in currency of your choosing. After few trades, possibly same ppl come back and you have trade friends over time. Talk to them and exchange ways of communication to easily find good deals when needed.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @0348090484 31 Jan

Experiment, or as always, fck around-figure out :) Someone mentioned before, I guess what you need is Robosats. I use both, depending what circumstance.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @OriginalSize 31 Jan

Excellent. Have you compiled a list of similar efforts? I'd imagine you can learn some general rules which will be helpful to yourself and others going forward.

It would be interesting to know what additional products or services would be helpful to make this more of a reality.

132 sats \ 0 replies \ @Catcher OP 31 Jan

No, I have not, so if you could share some links with descriptions of the similar experiences would be great. But for now I think each experience will be different, even between different cities of the same country. Also experience is also varied on the family status - if you have family and kids it's much more different spending patterns compared to a single person. Alone I would probably live comfortably by simply buying amazon and psn gift cards:)

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @SahilC0 31 Jan

How common are credit cards in Germany? If you can get away with that, it'll probably make your life easier. Just "sell" bitcoin (spend bitcoin) to pay off the bill at the end of the month.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Catcher OP 31 Jan

That's what I wanted to avoid, I don't like the idea of buying btc at the beginning of the month and selling at the end of the month, it's like timing the market. During bull phase it's probably working flawlessly but if you had a 40% drop during that month you don't really want to pay almost double in btc terms of what you've got at the beginning of the month. My idea is to try spending btc directly, although most of the time these are just the gift cards, it protects you from the volatility in a way.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SahilC0 31 Jan

Yeah I hear you. one way to avoid that is to directly pay off the bill (or rent, whatever) as soon as income comes in. (That's what I do). That way you're not buying and selling on a different day. Volatility is reduced to basically zero