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102 sats \ 6 replies \ @BatarangRufio 4 Jul 2022 freebie
ᴡʜᴀᴛ ᴇxᴀᴄᴛʟʏ ɪꜱ ᴀ ᴄᴏɪɴᴊᴏɪɴ? ɪꜱ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ʟɪᴋᴇ ᴡʜɪʀʟᴘᴏᴏʟ ᴏɴ ꜱᴀᴍᴜʀᴀɪ ᴡᴀʟʟᴇᴛ, ᴏʀ ɪꜱ ɪᴛ ᴊᴜꜱᴛ ᴀ ɢᴇɴᴇʀᴀʟ ᴛᴇʀᴍ ꜰᴏʀ ᴄᴏᴍʙɪɴᴇᴅ ɪɴᴘᴜᴛ/ᴏᴜᴛᴘᴜᴛꜱ?
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113 sats \ 0 replies \ @notgeld 4 Jul 2022
This is a general term for onchain privacy protocols.
https://en.bitcoinwiki.org/wiki/Privacy
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103 sats \ 4 replies \ @LaserStack 4 Jul 2022
CoinJoin is a type of bitcoin transaction with multiple participants, intended to mix the users' funds together and thus improve their privacy. Samurai's Whirlpool and StoneWallX2 are implementations of CoinJoin, but this seems like one created by Wasabi wallet 2.0.
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5 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 4 Jul 2022
Yep wasabi
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @iguano 4 Jul 2022
how do you distinguish between the different coinjoins?
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13 sats \ 1 reply \ @LaserStack 4 Jul 2022
Whirlpool has five inputs and outputs, all of roughly the same amount. StoneWall, StoneWallX2, and Darkwallet have four outputs, two of which share the same amount. Wasabi wallet 1.0 has ~100 inputs and and slightly more outputs, with most of being standard denominations. Wasabi wallet 2.0 CoinJoins have ~300 inputs and outputs with no standard denominations. JoinMarket CoinJoins usually have 15-40 inputs and outputs, with most of the outputs sharing the same amount.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @iguano 4 Jul 2022
I see, thanks :)
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3 sats \ 8 replies \ @iguano 4 Jul 2022
To be honest, I don't see the point of using conjoins if you are not doing anything wrong.
I mean, lets say you are a normal guy who just want to have more privacy.
You use wasabi and conjoins your bitcoin, you don't know who are the other people., they can be drug dealers, they can be child porn abuser. at the end, you risk your self to be involved with the worst of the internet just try to get "privacy".
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100 sats \ 4 replies \ @glix 4 Jul 2022
Well, you also don't want to have a track of where all you spent your coins and how much coins you had. If you paid me, you would reveal all the UTXOs you owned, if it was a normal transaction and then I could also go down the trail and see all the other UTXOs that might belong to you. It's more about fungibility. It should be none of my business to know how much money you have or how you got it. I got the amount I wanted from you and you got what you paid for and that should be the end of it. The more coin join transactions we have, the better it would be for all.
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @iguano 4 Jul 2022
I guess that is why we have the LN, is orders of magnitude more private than the blockchain.
I mean, I'm not against coinjoin, but I can't recommend the use of it to friends and family at this point. and maybe is just me being afraid of something illogical.
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15 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b OP 4 Jul 2022
It’s very private for the sender, not the receiver.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @iguano 4 Jul 2022
I mean, is not private in the way that the receiver have to reveal IP address and blockchain information.
But, you are not able to see the history of the funds in the channel, you can share an LNURL and you are revealing your IP but nobody will see how much funds you control and what are you doing with them after. (or before).
So LN is also more private than using the blockchain for the receiver.
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @glix 4 Jul 2022
Not really. Once you make an ln invoice and send it to me, I know which one's your node on the network (or atleast a node that you trust your funds with). I then can know every single channel your node has and the capacities in them. I can then sort of guess how much money you might have. But one things for certain - I know all the UTXOs that I need to watch to know which one's might be yours, again not good. As @k00b mentioned, it's bad for the receiver. It's a bit more worse, because with just one ln invoice you reveal your node id and with that all the channels, so you reveal all the UTXOs involved in the funding transactions of those channels. To get around this, you could have a "proxy" node that creates the invoice and recieves payment and then "forward" those sats to your actual node - it obviously gets a bit more involved.
But yeah, as you mentioned if you just use lightning for ever, it doesn't matter. That funding transaction can stay as it is and you can recieve and pay indefinitely on LN for years.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @EnormousPony 4 Jul 2022
Wrong.
Coinjoin should be the default mode to use bitcoin. Who cares who use bitcoin, it's neutral hard money by design and nobody should be able to determine how I use it and why I use it.
You could have a dollar bill in your portfolio that has been used to snort coke or buy a kid, you will never know and you shouldn't care because it's not the money fault
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2 sats \ 1 reply \ @iguano 4 Jul 2022
I'm agree with you, but that's a theoretical ideological way to see how to use bitcoin.
In real life, you will always have people trying to know more about you, and bitcoin being an immutable database is a great source of information of who you are.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @EnormousPony 4 Jul 2022
And that's why coinjoin should be used as much as possibile, to prevent data mining from bitcoin usage
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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @EnormousPony 4 Jul 2022
Chain analysis on suicide watch
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