EU agrees to liquidate Russia's confiscated assets to finance supply of weapons \ stacker news ~econ

EU agrees to liquidate Russia's confiscated assets to finance supply of weapons

525 sats \ 86 comments \ @TomK 17 Mar econ

And they are continuing to escalate: by confiscating Russian assets in the EU and buying ammunition for Ukraine, the European Union is driving the wedge between Russia and NATO ever deeper. In view of the withdrawal of the Americans from this long lost war, this is a further step towards disaster.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/scholz-macron-tusk-seek-bridge-european-divisions-ukraine-2024-03-15/

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23 sats \ 33 replies \ @Coinsreporter 17 Mar

I don't understand why they are going crazy. While they have every chance to negate with Putin, why are they trying to create chaos. They aren't in some serious politics for sure. It's childish.

110 sats \ 9 replies \ @petertodd 17 Mar

Negotiations have been tried many times over. Russia simply uses ceasefires as an opportunity to rearm, and tries again later. Which isn't surprising, as their goal is clearly to take land and resources and subjugate the population. War is profitable for Russia too.

This is exactly like negotiating with a thief. Their goal is simply to take your stuff. Nothing you give up in negotiations will change that.

Frankly this type of anti-military sentiment is just the right wing version of Defund The Police, and equally misguided. Bad people, and bad countries, exist in the world. The only long term solution is to defeat them.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 17 Mar

Ukraine can’t win. Their only hope is a ceasefire. If they continue they will only lose more territory.

Ukraine provoked Russia by trying to join EU and NATO. That was a redline for Russia and Putin since 1997

31 sats \ 6 replies \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

are you joking? question mark you didn't notice the whole story with Boris Johnson? you also didn't notice that Merkel and macron admitted that the minsk agreement only served to upgrade the ukrainian army to a NATO army? pull your head out of the sand!

31 sats \ 4 replies \ @Coinsreporter 17 Mar

But they can't admit Ukraine to NATO. Can they? And really if they want to escalate this situation with Russia, what's better way then including Ukraine to NATO list.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

Absolutely not. If Ukraine joins NATO, Putin will go nuclear

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

That will be their last shot to bring in WWIII

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 17 Mar

NATO will not start WW3 over Ukraine.

Ukraine is a pawn to poke the Russian bear.

NATO members are cowards and cheap. Only 6 out of 32 members have paid their dues, 2 percent of annual GDP.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @TomK OP 18 Mar

Hope you're right

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

There is Trump derangement syndrome and now Russia and Putin derangement syndrome.

Russia derangement syndrome is more serious. Wrong decision will have deadly consequences for NATO and Europe and Ukraine.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

Btw: Why don't you fight on the front line there yourself?

32 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 17 Mar

It's from the old political playbook: if you can't fix your economy, go to war.

23 sats \ 0 replies \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

.... then let the flame grind higher and higher

0 sats \ 20 replies \ @PlebeiusG 17 Mar

You must think Putin is open to negotiation...

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

From 2014:

The United States and its European allies now face a choice on Ukraine. They can continue their current policy, which will exacerbate hostilities with Russia and devastate Ukraine in the process -- a scenario in which everyone would come out a loser. Or they can switch gears and work to create a prosperous but neutral Ukraine, one that does not threaten Russia and allows the West to repair its relations with Moscow. With that approach, all sides would win.

https://portside.org/2014-09-02/why-ukraine-crisis-wests-fault-liberal-delusions-provoked-putin

1 sat \ 5 replies \ @Coinsreporter 17 Mar

I know he is not but at least they should try.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @PlebeiusG 17 Mar

You must think nobody has tried...

Or, you must think that negotiating with a grizzly bear is on the list of reasonable options.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 17 Mar

Nobody has tried

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @PlebeiusG 17 Mar

You must have privileged information only privy to those with special access.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

I recommend reading or listening to John Mearsheimer.

Here is a lecture from 2015:

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 17 Mar

It’s common sense

You’re getting your news from the wrong sources

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 17 Mar

He is open to a cease fire

0 sats \ 11 replies \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

What is Your proposal? Escalation in the 'Neocon/British' style? What about what Pope Francis said to let these people find a solution without always intervening? Being neutral has been one of the key principles of the US long time ago until the UK/ neocons 'activated' their war machine

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Coinsreporter 18 Mar

Okay, that been haçk of a long discussion guys. You all are awesome here but do not escalate this . Stay humble, stack Sats.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @TomK OP 18 Mar

Greets

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @PlebeiusG 17 Mar

Well, you see. My comment was just a reply to your idea that Putin is open to negotiation. I think its plain to see he is not.

I don't have to have an alternative to put forward the simple truth that Putin doesn't have a strong history of bilateral agreements with the free world. He is a strongman. He gets along best with other strongmen.

War occurs when negotiations aren't possible. War is avoided when they are. Right now there is war.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 17 Mar

Putin is open to a ceasefire

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

Well, to me the history of the Anglo-american war complex speaks a different story (Balkans, Afghanistan, Irak 1+2, Libia etc etc). This clearly is not a peace making force.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @PlebeiusG 17 Mar

Total change of topic.

I think you're correct to a degree.

But Putin... is not open for negotiations on this war.. lets at least be realistic about that.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

just so you understand me correctly: i'm not a putin fan. as a libertarian i hate such systems like the plague. however, i have higher expectations of the west than what corrupt proles like biden, scholz, macron and the other scum offer us. For us it is important to destroy the propaganda wall of 'our' side, too to get a more or less neutral perspective.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 17 Mar

Agreed. I think the west is on the path to losing its way!!

I think we should destroy the propaganda wall as well!

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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 17 Mar

Putin is open to a ceasefire. NATO is not.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @PlebeiusG 17 Mar

A ceasefire allows Russia to rearm, retool, rest troops, and reengage when it so chooses.

Only a cuck would think that tapping out in a streetfight would be honored by the other party.

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31 sats \ 3 replies \ @arrivederci 17 Mar

@TomK the submission headline you have used is not actually a good summary of the (badly written) Reuters article.

They have agreed to use profit (e.g. interest paid) from the frozen assets and not actually liquidate the confiscated assets. The article leads with this information :

Ukraine's backers will use windfall profits on frozen Russian assets to finance arms purchases for Kyiv

but fails to properly draw out what this means in the article, as would be good journalistic practice, and thus allows confusion on what has actually happened from the reader.

What they are doing represents a significantly smaller step taken (but still a grossly stupid and criminal one) than actually liquidating the frozen assets. Euroclear, the authority that actually holds over 70% of the frozen assets, had previously given the ok for using the interest paid on the assets but is still, very strongly, warning against the liquidation, i.e. full seizing, of the assets. Because Euroclear recognises, correctly, that seizing the assets will have catastrophic consequences for Europe as a financial centre.

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

Next step will be confiscation as it is mentioned here in the WSJ: https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/europe-will-tap-frozen-russian-assets-for-ukraine-arms-germanys-scholz-says-659ed672

It's escalation step by step

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @arrivederci 17 Mar

That's a far better article (judging by the bit you have shown)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

What happened to Reuters... it's a real big loss of quality over the years

10 sats \ 43 replies \ @kristapsk 17 Mar

from this long lost war

How it's lost? Russia will collapse in a few years economically continuing this war. They already are spending about 30% of annual budget on it. War economy is growing, real economy collapsing in Russia. It's not sustainable. Soviet Union couldn't manage it, Russia is weaker economically.

10 sats \ 14 replies \ @Bell_curve 17 Mar

Completely wrong assessment

Russian economy has grown since conflict.

Europe is dependent on Russia for natural gas.

10 sats \ 8 replies \ @kristapsk 18 Mar

Russian economy has grown since conflict.

War economy is growing, real economy collapsing.

21 sats \ 4 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

Which industries are collapsing in Russia right now?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @kristapsk 18 Mar

There are issues all the time. Recently they had chicken egg crisis (LOL), for example. https://www.newsweek.com/russia-eggs-crisis-prices-sanctions-1856439

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @TomK OP 18 Mar

These people are dreaming in their bubbles

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

Russia derangement syndrome

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @TomK OP 18 Mar

Yep

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @TomK OP 18 Mar

and what about the gigantic debt orgy of the United States? and the war industry in Europe? why don't you give us a concrete answer?

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @kristapsk 18 Mar

Russian share of war industry in economy is order of magnitudes bigger than European.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @TomK OP 18 Mar

10 sats \ 4 replies \ @kristapsk 18 Mar

EU has diversified it's natural gas sources and share of Russian imports are falling. https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/blogs/natural-gas/022624-russia-ukraine-war-europe-russian-gas-lng

With the majority of Russian pipeline deliveries halted, only a handful of countries still import piped gas from Russia’s Gazprom, among them Austria, Slovakia, Hungary and non-EU Serbia.

And although Russian LNG supplies to Europe remain relatively robust, they still account for only a small share of Europe’s overall gas imports.

Now, with the EU giving member states the right to restrict Russian imports at the national level and Austria looking to speed up an exit from Russian gas, the remaining Russian volumes in Europe face an uncertain future.

The EU has already seen its Russian gas and LNG imports plummet, falling from 155 Bcm in 2021 to 80 Bcm in 2022 and to 43 Bcm last year, according to European Commission data.

In its place, Europe is importing significantly more LNG, while traditional pipeline suppliers -- such as Norway, Algeria and Azerbaijan -- are doing their best to maintain high levels of exports.

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

Who is exporting LNG to EU if not Russia?

Eastern Europe is still dependent on Russia for natural gas

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @kristapsk 18 Mar

Source: https://www.bruegel.org/dataset/european-natural-gas-imports

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

America is biggest supplier of LNG to EU 27?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @kristapsk 18 Mar

Yes

0 sats \ 7 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

What about Ukraine economy, both real and war?

The longer this conflict drags on, more devastation for Ukraine.

If Ukraine joins NATO or EU then Russia will go nuclear

10 sats \ 5 replies \ @kristapsk 18 Mar

Ukrainian economy of course is not in a good shape right now. But they don't have much choices here if they want to continue to exist as a country and not be part of Russian Federation.

then Russia will go nuclear

Russian ar threatening to use nukes all the time. For example, they said before that American tanks in Ukraine will be "red line". But nothing happened after Abrams deliveries. Same with F-16 jets, which will be delivered soon. Putin also wants to live.

And if you allow one dictator to do nuclear blackmail to get what he wants, basically all current international order collapses and sooner or later you will likely end up with nuclear war anyway. See history, Hitler in 1930s.

Actually nuclear blackmail is sign of weakness. Only two countries are doing this - Russia and North Korea.

If they try to use nuclear, even tactical in Ukraine, 90% Russian Black Sea and Baltic Sea fleets will cease to exist in half an hour, will be destroyed with conventional (non-nuclear) means.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

Putin is not Hitler

Putin is only interested in eastern Ukraine as a buffer zone.

He wants Ukraine to be neutral, no NATO or EU membership

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @kristapsk 18 Mar

No, that's bullshit. He wants to restore Empire. They have officially annexed de iure from their perspective parts of Ukraine already in Russia, including ones they haven't even conquered.

If you listen to their TV shows, they are openly speaking that just existence of Ukraine as a country threatens Russia and that Poland and Baltics should be conquered next. And you can't speak at mainstream TV channels in Russia a messages that haven't been approved by Kremlin.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

Putin doesn’t care about Baltic states or Poland. Ukraine is a different story because of its proximity and history

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @kristapsk 18 Mar

He definitely cares about every inch of territory that was part of Soviet Union.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

Do you know John Mearsheimer?

#469378

#469377

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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @TomK OP 18 Mar

these people can't get that through their heads because the mainstream press has stuffed them full of propaganda like a Christmas goose

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

Ukraine doesn’t have the manpower and artillery to win this war. The best they can hope for is a stalemate or ceasefire.

0 sats \ 18 replies \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

You are so wrong on that. You should study the state of 'western' economies and societies. Start with the Eurozone...

10 sats \ 17 replies \ @kristapsk 17 Mar

Eurozone has problems, but Russian economy is in worse shape. I often hear argument of they having resources and that is what matters, but people forget that Russians don't have their own tech for that, it's all Western tech, so they will have more and more problems there.

0 sats \ 16 replies \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

Your argumentation is 10 years behind reality. the Russian army is technically at least on a par with NATO and Russian industry has also caught up a lot thanks to the sanctions policy. in addition, Russia is embedded in a new corset of cooperation. it is impossible to win a war against a nuclear power and the world's largest energy and raw materials giant.

0 sats \ 12 replies \ @kristapsk 17 Mar

Russian army is technically at least on a par with NATO

You mean the planes which engines just fall off during the flight? :)

0 sats \ 11 replies \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

Is it Boeing?? Lol. You have no idea what's going on. Are You german?

10 sats \ 10 replies \ @kristapsk 17 Mar

No, it's Ilyushin Il-76.

I'm Latvian, born in Soviet Union, understand Russian thinking and attitude towards life, have Russian friends, including friends living in Russia (they support Ukraine in this war).

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

You were born in 1989 or earlier?

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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 18 Mar

I heard recently that Russia banned Latvian language for 80 years. Is this true or fiction?

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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

Okay, good luck with President Retard and his woke idiot troops and the English, who can't even get an aircraft carrier out of the harbor and a German army that remains at about the same level as in 1950. It's going to be a tough one

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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @kristapsk 17 Mar

Russian army is technically at least on a par with NATO and Russian industry has also caught up a lot thanks to the sanctions policy

LOL, you are living in illusion world.

Russians cannot increase their energey and raw material mining much. And Ukrainians are hitting them hard in this regard, they have recently shown their ability to hit oil refineries up to 900 km accross the border with drones at will.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

Oh my god... OK, enjoy the big victory from which even president retard slowly but surely is withdrawing. You are a victim of mainstream propaganda.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kristapsk 17 Mar

No, I just know Russia and Russians better than you.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @0xbitcoiner 17 Mar

This is related to what we talked about during the week, right? It's another own goal for the euro.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @TomK OP 17 Mar

That's correct. They are digging their grave deeper and deeper. It's fascinating

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @riberet19 18 Mar

I stole money from the enemy and used it against him, not bad.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ch0k1 17 Mar

This would be the dumbest thing on earth to do since the opposite actions would hurt them more - the way sanctions did the last two years.