What are the best arguments against a bright high school kid (with no desire to do medicine or law, maybe a yes on software) going to college? Stories welcome.
I'm advocating a no on college for this kid, others are advocating yes.
One problem with my argument is that it's hard to come up with anything that has the...certainty of college. No, there's no certainty of getting a good job, or anything like that, but it is a well recognized "thing", that people understand and mostly respect. You jump through the hoops, pay the money, and for 4 years you have a place to be, and things to do (useless though they may be).
I'll start us out:
- Colleges are all about wokeness now
- very little actual learning is taking place
- the cost is enormous for what you're getting
- you're just postponing entering the real world for 4 years
Grandparents: Fourth-grade educated Mississippi Sharecroppers
Parents: Aviation Electrician (Navy, and then Defense Contractors and General Motors Journeyman Electrician (Some college)
Sister: Advanced Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner
Me: Healthcare Informaticist and Administrator (Masters Degrees)
Niece and Nephew (Engineers - EECS and Construction)
Niece got $96k at 23 years old coming out of college. Nephew got 70 starting witha defense contractor.
$0.00 in loans!
Don't believe the hype. College is good if you do it right.
Don't borrow hundreds of thousands for degrees that have negative ROI.
And don't borrow money! Period!
very little actual learning is taking place
I’d disagree with this one. I can’t speak for all fields but high school and university mathematics can’t be compared. Students will learn a lot if they wish to.
Yes, but do you really need to go to university to learn university maths?
I'd argue that if you've maintained your curious nature, and if you're driven, you can learn anything, and won't need to go to college for it.
Definitely!
But the statement very little actual learning is taking place is imho wrong.
College is too expensive
Most students don’t study math in college
University math is too theoretical
As I wrote, I can’t speak for all study programs.
It depends.
Most colleges are overpriced
No advanced math required
I mean surely you can just look at the outcome the business produces is less favourable than what you're paying, if you're not going to study something that the market deems valuable
I think if you have a knack for a legal, finance or STEM career go ahead, other than that you're just wasting your time, money, and the opportunity cost attached to 4 years of not working + years of debt payments is insane
I dropped out of my masters and I am so glad I dodged that bullet
I'm surprised you didn't link to your prior posts:
I bet you could write a great post about what drives your curiosity around this.
Should have linked to them, forgot!
Also Bryan Caplan has a great book called "The Case against Education: Why the Education System Is a Waste of Time and Money". Good stuff but it's really hard arguing against something that's so deeply entrenched.
College won't make you smarter than you already are. Learning takes place everywhere, whether inside or outside of college.
Therefore, IF you're already naturally driven and curious, it can be a waste of your time...
The problem is that it's difficult to go through the school system and maintain that natural drive and curiosity, let alone learn useful things, i.e. things you're truly passionate about.
This is because schools are actually daycare institutions where we dump our kids so we can go to work to make a living. 8 hours per day in these institutions is too long, especially for kids...
This seems to easy to be honest with you...though I guess it depends on your(their) timeline???
If it is this fall....and they don't want to learn any of the free online coursework that is out there then it gets a little more difficult...
There are a bunch of online free college courses and degrees right now....
Everything else will be free in a matter of years....literally AI is going to be able to provide you with free learning on any subject for virtually free...
Just saying
Hmm. Interesting idea. I wonder if that's true, that college will disappear or be free in a couple years. The idea that you need a college degree to succeed is just so very embedded in our society. Not to mention the immense wealth that colleges have
The thing that's hard to fight is that the "what else" is unstructured. In the US, for kids that are maybe in the top 10 or 25% academically, it's very rare for these kids not do go to college. (If you know otherwise, please let me know).
There's no well-trodden path, if you choose not to go college. I asked in previous posts (thanks k00b for reminding me) about some options, and of course they're out there.
What are some solid alternatives to college/university?
Alternatives to university?
There's a lot of thing you can do (as mentioned in the previous posts), like technical college, get a job, start a business, travel/work, etc.
It's just hard doing something that's not the standard college path (i.e what all your friends and classmates are doing).
Trade schools and apprenticeships
Workplaces that are full of people with college degrees can be depressing. Why? Because there is usually a lot of bureaucracy in them and everyone is just trying to climb a ladder. Its not about making a good product or service, its just about climbing the ladder and fancy titles. This may not sound bad on paper but when you are in that world you are likely going to regret everything. It will make you unhappy.
But what is the alternative?
Just ask him if he wants to be a wage cuck neo slave or if he wants to be a self owned man
Lol
Here's a short argument: I didn't even mention that I went to university in my last job interview (and got the job).
Waste of money and not worth the loans!
You don’t need to be 200k in debt to prove you can work a job of running spread sheets and copy machines
The entire education system should be scrapped . Home school the children - Turiz
I mean I love my kids but no, thank you 🤣🤣🤣
How old is the kid?
Is old enough to make his own decisions?
College or university is not for everyone.
Some people prefer to go to some technical or professional course (electricity, solar panels, plumber,etc) and start working right away.
College is a long time investment.
copium from bluecollarcels take the L
Get a job in manufacturing instead, you will learn a lot about the economy and make some money.
Go to college, graduate, and get a good paying job.
don't take out any loans