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For those of you enjoying some vacation time, I have an intriguing book recommendation: Edward Gibbon's The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. This classic work provides a deep dive into how even the most powerful empires and dominant structures eventually fall when their time is up. Gibbon explores Rome’s internal corruption, political decay, and the pressures from outside forces that contributed to its downfall. His analysis offers valuable insights into the fragility of centralized systems and how new paradigms emerge as old ones collapse.
The fascination lies in the apparent necessity that must follow a rise: decay. The whole dramaturgy that is reflected in the individual fates, partly frozen by tragic events such as the eruption of Vesuvius in Pompeii in 79 AC, shows us how historical cycles develop and are always based on similar patterns that seem to have a life of their own. Our whole tragedy is the powerlessness with which we stand before these developments.
What makes this book even more engaging is Gibbon’s vibrant and metaphorical writing style from the late 18th century, which makes the historical narrative come alive. And speaking of centralized systems, it seems the European Union is working towards its own version of a "universal state"—we're just waiting for Brussels to declare the first Caesar (no, Ursuala, You're not the chosen one)!
Here You'll find an audio book on YT: https://youtu.be/cU5gJjKwmtM?si=gZGSTPKk7-NnEaKv
The first video ever I saw, many years ago, that opened my mind on the reality of politics and economy, was this explanation by Huerta del Soto on the fall of the Roman Empire. Essentially he states that it was solely due to socialist policies. I sadly found no english subtitles, I hope you can somehow get part of the message:
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yes, i know him very well. i wrote a major academic paper a long time ago on the fall of the western roman empire. my starting point was monetary policy and the systematic centralization of fiscal powers. basically very topical
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Impressive! Would you mind to share it on SN?
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As long as I prefer to stay anon I really can't. But we can discuss this here on SN for sure.
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Ok! Would you mind making a post underscoring the basics?
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41 sats \ 1 reply \ @TomK OP 11 Aug
I could prepare an article in the coming days to kick this off
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Cool! :)
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Victor Davis Hanson has written about the fall of Rome, directly and indirectlyl
I also use ai/LLM lol
from Brave search ai:
Gibbon's work estimated far smaller numbers of Christian martyrs than had been traditionally accepted, questioning the Church's version of its early history. By presenting a more nuanced and critical account of early Christianity, Gibbon challenged the Church's dominance over historical narrative.
Responding to Enlightenment Perspectives
Gibbon's emphasis on the "triumph of barbarism and religion" over the Roman Empire highlighted the role of religion in shaping historical events, aligning with Enlightenment thinkers' focus on the power of ideas. His critique of organized religion, particularly Christianity, reflected the Enlightenment's skepticism towards dogma and superstition. Gibbon's use of primary sources and rational approach to history embodied the Enlightenment's values of reason and empiricism.
New Insights
Gibbon's recognition of Islam's rapid rise and its role in the decline of the Roman Empire challenged the prevailing European view of Islam as a static and unchanging entity.
  • His portrayal of the Byzantine Empire's fate as equally influenced by both Christianity and Islam expanded the scope of Enlightenment historiography, acknowledging the complexity of religious and cultural interactions.
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I'm unable to blame any bad economical macro performance to anything but bad economic policies unless in the context of major and lasting cataclysms. No bad moral lasts in a context that rewards good morals economically, and vice-versa. Morals are never a driver, but a consequence of the context. Even today islam hasn't caused, and is ages from being able to cause, as much damage to Europe as Europe has inflicted to itself, by itself entirely. It's never a matter of conservatives vs liberals nor christians vs islamists, but solely about libertarianism vs socialism, i.e, freedom vs fascism.
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Very good point
Perhaps the other lines of demarcation are noise, a distraction. Maybe not lines of demarcation but lines of distraction
It would be nice for SN to allow wiki-style posts so that this kind of topics can grow collaboratively on everyone's contributions, as yours. Hopefully it's on the roadmap
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I added to my initial comment but forgot to "edit"
Brave search ai content is the "new" content
I've been thinking of acquiring this book. I think you just convinced me, OP.
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Nice review. I've known about this book for a long time, but I've never gotten around to reading it.
For some reason, the Roman Empire is one of those topics that seems to fascinate everyone except for me.
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Thanks. there's one figure in roman history who, in my opinion, really outshines everything else in terms of interesting twists and turns in life: that's emperor Julian from the late fourth century. it's really something you should look at. it's not the perfect place to start because ideally you should start with the roman republic, but it's when you need something that's extraordinary, a vita like you'll never find again.
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I'll keep that in mind. I should be familiar enough with Roman history to dive right in.
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59 sats \ 1 reply \ @TomK OP 11 Aug
Gore Vidal wrote a remarkble book about this man
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Ok, I'll keep an eye out for it. I like to slowly add to my library through finding used books.
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All the pictures are from Rome?
I think Gibbons also mentioned the importance of the Charles Martel and the battle of tours in 732
Verified: Several historians, such as Edward Gibbon, have credited the Christian victory in the battle as an important factor in curtailing the spread of Islam in Western Europe.
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2 and 4 are chosen from medit. archeological sites. Yes, he mentioned Tours but in another of his works.
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I have muted a lot of pro immigration and pro transgender SN users because they spew nonsense and vitriol. My rule of thumb is if this person is making me stupider then mute him
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @TomK OP 11 Aug
so i can save myself the time of searching for these freaks, eh? but well done. i'll probably start soon too
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Exactly lol
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I cant believe I missed this post. Soon it wont be the decline of Rome that will be the tale that is told. It will be the Rise and Fall of the United States of America.
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Let's see if they can consolidate as a free independent society after withdrawing (like now from Syria and Irak) from outposts
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Well, they do have to protect some of their oil. Guess where that is?
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20 sats \ 1 reply \ @TomK OP 12 Aug
Question is: will they be able to?
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Of course they will be able to. Its just the price that they will have to pay might be hard to swallow.
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Common to decline is inability to see the decline and acknowledge it and the likely successors. Chinas challenge to the hegemony of the USA/west is now evident but dismissed by many despite the overwhelming evidence that China could displace USA and create a new world order very different to the current western 'liberal' one. https://www.thepress.co.nz/world-news/350370374/china-stockpiling-should-west-be-doing-same
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