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79 sats \ 19 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 9 Sep \ parent \ on: Green Socialism: Trapped In The Apocalyptic Cult econ
The Bitcoin Standard is not inconsistent with the idea of state funded investment. El Salvador demonstrates this if you really need an example. Any understanding of science and economy shows state funding of pure science has driven major advances in the productive economy and private enterprise does not often fund pure science so an educated and informed public would generally support taxation to fund science.
The Bitcoin Standard does not have to result in an end to taxation and collective economic progress...
Climate change is a crisis which demonstrates very clearly the need for people to be capable of action beyond the crude imperatives of free markets. Climate change demands agreement and consensus to act in the common interest and that's is perhaps why it is denied by more extremist libertarians.
Do you think taxation is enough, or will the money printer also be needed to solve such a big and important problem? The US spent $1.7T more than it collected in taxes in 2023. That's a pretty big difference. How's that going to work when they can't print money anymore? It will be difficult to pay for green new deals and whatnot.
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Agree fiat money hegemony has corrupted the US politics, economy and society.
USA consumes far more than it produces except that it can and does print the global reserve currency.
Quite likely that the rest of the world soon stop accepting that as sustainable in fact its already happening- Russia and Iran are already trading denominated in Chinese Yuan.
A declining US/West and a rising China is a largely separate issue to climate change although the mandate for a Chinese empire could well be gained by China representing a political system that is more capable of responding logically to the threat of climate change than the corporate patronised fake democracy and crony capitalism of the West.
China with its politburo composed of 80% engineers has already has built the manufacturing and technology base required to radically increase energy efficiency and productivity.
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Are those engineers responsible for all of China's ghost cities? https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/the-story-behind-the-many-ghost-towns-of-abandoned-mansions-across-china. Imagine all the carbon emissions from building unused skyscrapers and demolishing them. Is that the energy efficiency you're referring to?
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Real estate development has been a major driver and regional governments have been responsible for this not the central government.
The central government and engineers who populate it have however used some rather creative management in terms of limiting the damage-
https://fortune.com/2024/02/08/evergrande-liquidation-99-percent-haircut-hedge-funds/
It is greedy western hedge funds that are being hung out to dry.
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So the centrally planned economy wasn't centrally planned enough? It really fascinates me that you like bitcoin, or at least seem to. How can you possibly reconcile bitcoin with your collectivist leanings? Wealth held by individuals in a sovereign way will be difficult for governments to confiscate for "The Greater Good" of solving climate change or whatever the next crises is. Does that concern you?
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Do you not acknowledge the role governments have always played in co-ordinating with private enterprise to maximise the wealth creation of the collective that is known as a nation state?
The Wests relative wealth is based upon its historical ability to capture and control global resources from less well organised nations/peoples and use those resources to its advantage.
Libertarians seem blind to this age old reality.
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Study some history and you will see it is ALWAYS a combination of the state and private enterprise that together achieve resource hegemony. It is never private enterprise in isolation. This is one of the many giant blind spots of Libertarians!
Provide examples of when it was not that combination and prove me wrong. SILENCE.
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What do you mean by "always"? They certainly haven't literally always played this role. And while maximizing wealth creation may be the goal, we have no way of knowing if they were successful in doing that, or if the money would have been better spent elsewhere.
Are you able to answer this question: How will we pay to fix climate change on a bitcoin standard? Maybe you live in a place where you aren't allowed to speak freely? If so I understand, surveillance is really getting out of hand these days.
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Climate change is a crisis which demonstrates very clearly the need for people to be capable of action beyond the crude imperatives of free markets. Climate change demands agreement and consensus to act in the common interest and that's is perhaps why it is denied by more extremist libertarians.
Spot on.
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Have you seen the price tag for solving climate change? $5.5T per year, and we can safely assume that's a low ball estimate considering who's making it. I'm curious how you think that gets paid for on a Bitcoin Standard. That's a lot of money to collect if there's no money printer.
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Have you seen the price tag for NOT solving climate change?
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Yes, yes I'm sure it's a lot. So how do we pay to solve climate change on a bitcoin standard? Keeping in mind the US already spends $1.7T more than it collects in taxes plus we need another $5.5T per year (globally) according to the UN. So where's all that money going to come from without the money printer? I'm making the assumption we all want a bitcoin standard here, am I wrong?
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So you accept human caused climate change is real threat to humanity?
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No point in discussing how to pay for something you dont even acknowledge as a problem.
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No point in discussing how to deal with climate change with someone who does not acknowledge there is a problem.