Do cows cry? \ stacker news ~alter

1350 sats \ 55 comments \ @DesertDave 21 Oct alter_native

We live near a ranch where cows roam freely on our land and all around us. I love watching them. To me, they are so adorable. Yesterday, some ranchers came out with 4 large cattle trailers and worked all day loading up cows. I assume they were off to a slaughter house. It was sad for me to watch. What happened next, blew my mind.

That night the cows mooed all night long, like I had never heard before. It sounded like they were grieving. The next morning, they were mostly all laying down near the gate where the other cows had been recently pulled out. Usually they would all be scattered around the desert by this time. Even our dog who usually chases and antagonizes them every chance she gets, didn't make a sound as we drove by the resting cows. It seemed like she knew something was up. Like she was letting them off today because they were going through something. It felt like a funeral. It was crazy.

What do you all think. Were they sad that their friends had been taken away? Do cows have feelings and relationships? Do you think all animals grieve? And should we care?

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53 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheMorningStar 21 Oct

A imams have feelings and they certainly show them. Cows cry and all animals cry undoubtedly. I don't believe if science say otherwise.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

I agree. It feels good that there are others here with a similar view.

74 sats \ 2 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 21 Oct

I used to work with my kids at a dairy farmer’s farm when he had to travel for medical purposes. Those cows absolutely knew we were not the regular humans for there and actually seemed to help us out more than I had seen them cooperate with the farmer. They also knew that my youngest, at the time, was somewhat afraid of them. They always begged him for more feed at milking time and he would give it. They weren’t dumb animals, cooperated with us and the barn cats and came in during the evening time easier than when the farmer friend did it. Of course, we didn’t hit them with anything either. So yes, they have consciousness, IMHO, Perhaps not exactly like ours, though.

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 21 Oct

Once heard that a cow can remember people after several years since seeing them. Previously kept a small herd of them and they become friends- we gave them each names. There's 900 dairy cows now that live over the fence and they all have numbered ear tags- we like to say hello and wish them good day and imo they show intelligence, curiosity and character.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

I can see their intelligence in their eyes. Thanks for the share.

64 sats \ 9 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 21 Oct

Live next to a 900 head dairy herd - each year at calving they put some of the cows in the paddock next to us to calve and within 24 hours of the calf being born they are taken away to be raised for beef or slaughtered. Wife pointed out some of the cows were crying after their calf was taken away - did not believe it at first- but sure enough, they do. Cattle are as smart as a dog and have feelings for sure. Yes we should care, but all that said I still love dairy- butter, cheese, cream and steak. But yes, Dave, IMO livestock should be treated with care and respect. At least the herd next to us gets to roam on the paddock, eat grass and live under the sky- not locked in a concrete floored steel walled feed lot...those animals I do truly pity.

31 sats \ 8 replies \ @anna 21 Oct

This is the way. I don’t eat meat but I understand keeping livestock. I can’t get behind factory farming in any way. It seems irreparably damaging to both the livestock and the people that work there

22 sats \ 7 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 21 Oct

The factory farming requires cells taken from cows they kill for just that harvesting. To say that factory farming meat is free from the need to slaughter animals is incorrect. Gates and his crew are killing them to do their deeds, they just like to remove it one more step from the consumer.

21 sats \ 6 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

EVIL

22 sats \ 5 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 21 Oct

I could not ever disagree with your assessment of Gates. I am looking forward to seeing him either hang or be locked into a cage for the rest of his life. For what he has done, perhaps extinguishing his whole line and vaporizing his wealth would be proper.

11 sats \ 4 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

I believe we always get what we deserve eventually. I am sure he is a miserable man.

11 sats \ 3 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 21 Oct

His misery does not concern me. The results of his actions are what were and are devastating. Something more than misery might be coming his way karmically.

11 sats \ 2 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 21 Oct

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131 sats \ 4 replies \ @Taurus 21 Oct

Dogs, elephants and monkeys do, according to some studies. I don’t know about other animals but I wouldn’t be surprised if cows grieve. Why would anyone think only humans can have feelings lol too egocentric / religious for me

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

I agree. It blows my mind that so many people don't seem to think animals feel things.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 21 Oct

There is the Gaia Theory that states that everything on the planet has some sort of consciousness, whether fast and active or very slow and inactive. That would even include stones and sand as well as humans and dolphins. From my experiences on the ocean, I can say that dolphins, orcas and whales are definitely intelligent and even like to play.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

I believe that. I feel it.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 21 Oct

Source is everywhere.

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @ET_AI 21 Oct

I believe that cows make relationships and grieve for sure. I wonder if more people could experience something like this, there would be less people eating them.

22 sats \ 1 reply \ @cryotosensei 21 Oct

I don’t know how true this is, but there is an argument for eating fishes rather than poultry. Fish can’t feel pain, it seems. So I do try to include more fish in my diet

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

I agree that fish feel better to eat than chicken. And chicken better than red meat. I wonder how we can know fish don't feel pain.

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @030e0dca83 21 Oct

Yes, I heard about cow's tears. Seems like elocution approached them further than anything else

22 sats \ 1 reply \ @OT 21 Oct

There's a beef farmer in rural Australia by the name of Jacob Wolki (bitcoiner too). I remember seeing a tweet of his where he had to slaughter the cow in the field. He said the other cows just watched out of interest.

Don't have the tweet as I'm not on twitter anymore. But I thought it is related. I'm pretty sure he would disagree, but I personally wouldn't know TBH

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

That's interesting. There are other posts here that say the same. But that isn't what I experienced fist hand. I wonder what the difference is.

22 sats \ 5 replies \ @rebel_nomad 21 Oct

Animals are using telepathy far more than us, seems to me that they're kinda "logged in" constantly, of course it will be a natural experience for them.

When one of our young cats likely got grabbed & killed by a monitor lizard the others finally understood that this can be a dangerous place, they all stopped roaming around as before from that very moment.

He was the one who deserved that the least, since he spent a while in the jaws of our dog as a kitten while my wife broke a heavy umbrella over his back to save him...

Since that happened he's also been around here, he kept popping up in my mind in a very clear, realistic and different way than as a memory only. Then yesterday that changed suddenly, so he's likely on his way to being another cat, at another place :-)

Or maybe a monitor lizard to avoid this particular fate the next time hehe!

21 sats \ 4 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

It's like how my dogs can sprint off into the wild desert when it is dark outside, to chase a small creature. It blows my mind. They re so in tune. It's like beyond the 5 senses that we tend to focus on.

22 sats \ 3 replies \ @rebel_nomad 21 Oct

Yep, but its possible to train and regain some of it at least!

When I lived in a rural house before the scamdemic I had a very regular route that I'd walk or run in the woods, after a while I started doing it in the pitch dark. Worked most of the time, it was only once that I completely lost track and had to literally feel my way around trees for a hundred yards or so before I could see where I was haha!

Sailing solo in the night is also great btw...

20 sats \ 2 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

That's awesome. I agree we can relearn. People are so out of touch with their environment in general. I once had a dose of mushrooms and wondered into the desert. Soon it got very dark. I was also naked. No shoes. I didn't even really have a trip. My sense just turned way up. And I made it home no problem. It was very cool.

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @rebel_nomad 21 Oct

Hehehehe, with your nick and this great territory I'd expect nothing less! ;-)

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

Thank you. I am glad there are some here that appreciate it.. alter_native is still being defined.

11 sats \ 4 replies \ @Signal312 21 Oct

I would guess that the cows do feel sadness when their calves are taken away. That's a very basic, very primal thing.

However I also believe that ALL life depends on the deaths of other organisms.

Even if you don't eat beef, you're eating plants that cause death to animals. Not cows, but field animals like rabbits, mice, deer, etc, that are killed by the processes of plowing and harvesting.

34 sats \ 2 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

If I plant a garden, how am I killing animals that would have eaten that food? For my own health, I like to consume that which is closer to the light. Which is not dead flesh, but living food. To me, the sun is pure energy, the source, the light, god. And eating the gifts of a fruit is a lot closer to that than eating the thing that eats the thing that is closer to god. And I am not against eating meat. But if I were going to do it now, I would want to be a hunter as well. And honor the animal. Not a fan of factory farming. We have become so disconnected from our food and where it comes from.

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @Signal312 21 Oct

This is an issue more with commercial agriculture. With plows and tractors in wheat fields and the like, you're killing lots of animals. That's just the way it is.

Here's an article discussing the issue: https://sci-hub.se/10.1007/s10806-018-9733-8 (Fischer, B., & Lamey, A. (2018). Field Deaths in Plant Agriculture. Journal of Agricultural and Environmental Ethics. doi:10.1007/s10806-018-9733-8 )

With a home garden, I don't know what the situation is in terms of animal deaths. Probably much less.

However, I have a brother who has a very extensive garden. He's very much hindered by "varmints" getting into his garden (raccoons, rabbits, field mice, some burrowing animals) and really destroying his yields. He's tried all kinds of things (traps, shooting them, big huge fences, even going a bit underground with the fencing) and it helps, but it's still a problem. And while it's a big garden, it doesn't provide anywhere close to all of the family's food - it's probably about 10%, just their fresh veggies.

34 sats \ 0 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

That makes sense. I am the type that saves bugs and stuff so killing anything isn't ideal to me. And it is inevitable. I kill spiders that set up homes in our home. I just do my best to be in flow with nature and harm as little as possible. And factory farming seems to be the worst option when it comes to food.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

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11 sats \ 3 replies \ @OriginalSize 21 Oct

My experience says unlikely, and if they did to the extent that it affected the business, it would be bred out. I won't go into the gory details but I've seen zero reaction from one cow to another's dispatch. Maybe some breeds or larger groups though do have a social sense.

32 sats \ 2 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

Maybe it depends on the setting and whatnot. Were the cows you observed free range?

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @OriginalSize 21 Oct

I think so. A few were chilling in a field which seemed pretty spacious.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

Maybe the observer changes what may be observed. Who knows. 🤷‍♂️

11 sats \ 12 replies \ @JesseJames 21 Oct

they are herd animals, they most likely sense the absence of some members but going about "feelings" is a bit stretch imho... :-)

62 sats \ 1 reply \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

Maybe if you saw what I did, you might feel differently. Why would they not feel things? Do you think dogs have feelings and can grieve?

121 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 21 Oct

Was once skeptical too like Jesse, but now having seen them cry after their newborn calf is taken, have to agree 100% with you Dave.

122 sats \ 9 replies \ @rebel_nomad 21 Oct

Thinking that animals do not have emotions and quite advanced capabilities in their field of expertise is... Oh well, the materialistic West is failing rapidly anyway, so I'll just say nothing more ;-)

Anyway, the interesting thing with animals is that its so much easier to deal with them when you engage on all levels, and once you do you get fascinating reactions!

Couple of days ago we had our three legged, young and powerful male cat get a cut at the base of his tail, so we took him to the vet through heavy traffic.

Cage him? No way! He trusts me, so I won't break that trust. Kept him on my lap all the time, now and then getting him to relax, and when he tried to flee at least he trusted me enough to not use his claws or panic outright :-)

Eventually the bandage fell off, we tried to pin him down to attach another, but had to give up in the end. Since he had resisted hard I finished it off by pinning him to the floor while growling a bit, whenever he is unruly for whatever reason its important that he knows I'm the ultimate boss.

The next day? Instead of meowing until I answer and open the door he only let out 3 doubtful meows, then walked away... Normally I'll answer with a high pitch meow before opening, and he'll get really happy & enthusiastic on the other end!

When he finally understood that maybe something bad happened the last night but now he was totally accepted again, anyone seeing the reaction would know that animals are full of emotions, and all the good qualities we'd like to see in people...

I respect him far more than most bipeds I've met, he is fearless, super loyal to the kitten and protecting them all, and the best cat friend I could get :-)

Also he is annoying as hell sometimes, but I would not expect anything else from a healthy male haha!

10 sats \ 8 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

I love this story. And I completely agree. I spend tons of time with our animals. The dogs usually go with us to town. And our cat is amazing. I love animals so much. And it completely blows my mind that many people don't consider them just as important as humans. Even though I love people also, they are my least favorite. We can be quite arrogant. And we have forgotten how to live with the flow of nature. My animals help me remember. Thanks for the share. 💚

11 sats \ 7 replies \ @rebel_nomad 21 Oct

I've got so many stories after these dozens of cats ended up with us...

Had a couple die while I tried to rescue them too, when they realized that their bodies were wrecked they just kind left...

We've got 13 now, 4 small kittens, 2 medium and 1 survivor where all her other family is dead, they all started taking care of her once her siblings disappeared.

Oh well, I guess the monitor lizards here are well fed at least... Hard to do anything about that

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

Wow. That is a ton of cats. There is only so much we can do up against nature. Maybe nothing at all. Maybe trying to go against nature is futile.

11 sats \ 5 replies \ @rebel_nomad 21 Oct

After Onion (probably) was eaten all the others finally started getting real careful outside...

So they know, and adjust :-)

I could go on for hours describing them all, they're real individuals, and when I put some effort into keeping them all happy it all works out well hehe

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @DesertDave OP 21 Oct

I'm curious. Do you eat meat? You obviously are very connected to animals.

11 sats \ 3 replies \ @rebel_nomad 21 Oct

I get seriously sick without that, so yes.

When there is time and opportunity for it I find it easy to understand them, of course meditation and cutting off thinking also really helps :-)

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DesertDave OP 22 Oct

I just learned from my neighbor that the ranchers were actually taking the calf's away from their moms to wean and relocate them. And he heard the crying as well. This makes it even more sad for me. I feel so bad for them.