By Owen Ashworth
Capitalism is characterized by the private ownership of capital, coming from Lockean homesteading principles, and not from state coercion and force.
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68 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 30 Oct
For some time when people start using the word capitalism in negative ways I ask them to define what THEY mean by it. I don't care what others mean or what I hear or think. If you want to have a fruitful conversation with someone you need to listen to understand them. They may be wrong or right but if I don't understand what they intend to communicate the conversation is a failure.
Usually people define what I would call crony capitalism or more precicesly define as socialism. At least a version which heavily utilizes market forces and has private ownership.
I'm still working my way through the Hoppe book BTW.
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63 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined OP 30 Oct
It's always best to make sure you aren't talking past each other. I also don't particularly care how people define their terms, as long as they're careful in how they apply them.
What I find people often do is jump from one definition to another, without realizing it, in order to make a self-serving, but incoherent, point.
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63 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 30 Oct
Most of the time I find people are just repeating talking points from one of the two popular narratives in culture. Capitalism good, or capitalism bad. Its woefully incoherent as both sides seem to be most of the time.
And for some of the (seemingly) low IQ stackers, the left is far more off on most things than the right. But the left does make some valid criticisms of the right. As many say, tribalism overpowers logic and reason.
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4 sats \ 14 replies \ @Satosora 30 Oct
"Capitalism is not, as we’re often led to believe, a free-market system. We have this view of capitalism that is nice, decentralized system where markets decide who gets what… Capitalism means more markets… Capitalism is actually a highly centralized system that rests not just on markets but also on centralized planning—an authoritarian, hierarchical, oligarchic system where a few people at the very top of society decide who gets what."
I didnt realize capitalism wasnt a free market.
After reading this article, l have to adjust my definition of it.
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25 sats \ 8 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 30 Oct
“Capitalism” is the Marxist name for the free enterprise, free markets endeavors of free men.
Why use the enemy’s definition for your preferred system?
If you let your enemies define what you think or do, you are in a trap of their making!!
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20 sats \ 7 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 30 Oct
The term was meant to be ugly, but the definition "private ownership of the means of production" is perfectly acceptable.
A particularly powerful method of argumentation is to grant your opponent their premises and still show that they're wrong.
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64 sats \ 6 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 30 Oct
Wouldn’t that be a proof by contradiction?
I do not like giving the enemy the basic premises if they have been twisting the words.
If you accept their premises, you are accepting their twisted definitions.
If you accept their definitions you are accepting their trap.
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20 sats \ 5 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 30 Oct
It's a variety of proof by contradiction. It's called accepting a premise "ad arguendo" (for the sake of argument). If you can show that even on their own terms their arguments fail, then there's no leg left for them to stand on.
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9 sats \ 4 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 30 Oct
I understood that. My objection is to even consider using their definition for words.
That is one of their main weapons: changing definitions.
They have been changing the meaning of words to the opposite of what they mean, ala Eric Blair.
I am never ready to concede left is right, right is wrong (and vise versa) or down is up.
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20 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 30 Oct
Sure, but like you said, they invented this term.
They may try to change the original definition, now that the original meaning yielded the wrong results. However, I'm perfectly comfortable embracing "private ownership of the means of production" as the proper basis for civilization.
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73 sats \ 2 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 30 Oct
As everyone should be!! However the communists do not embrace any kind of definition like this.
My wife once told me about sisters: What’s hers is mine, what’s mine is mine.
To me this sounded just like a good communist, but only intrafamilial.
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30 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 30 Oct
Be careful about that quote. The article is refuting that view of "capitalism". The line right after the quote is "This definition is a thoroughly incoherent way of defining capitalism. "
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80 sats \ 3 replies \ @Satosora 30 Oct
"This definition is a thoroughly incoherent way of defining capitalism. Grace believes that the system we have right now is actual capitalism but parts of her definition could easily be applied to other systems that are resolutely different."
This makes it even more confusing.
This is just her definition, not the actual definition, right?
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50 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 30 Oct
Correct. It's a common way in which socialists try to pervert the definition of "capitalism" in order to make subsequent strawman arguments against it.
The real distinction is very straightforward: "Socialism" is the state ownership of the means of production and "capitalism" is the private ownership of the means of production.
Private ownership implies a free market economy.
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64 sats \ 1 reply \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 30 Oct
Perhaps private ownership is the basis in law for “capitalism”. I to prefer the free market (non- interference in markets by the state). It incompasses the private ownership of means of production and also the disposition of those goods.
Taxes of any sort are also interference in the market.
The owner of the goods should be able to sell for any price, to any person that the owner wishes.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 30 Oct
I tend to think of it as "ownership" meaning "exclusive right to control", which would include making or rejecting proposed trades.
Properly understood "capitalism" and "free markets" are just two sides of the same coin.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Msd0457890 30 Oct
Capitalism is an economic and social system based on the principles of private ownership of the means of production, with capital as the central production tool (due to its characteristics as an inert production factor). It is mainly constituted by business relations linked to investment and profit-making activities, as well as labor relations, both self-employed and subordinate salaried.
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