pull down to refresh
841 sats \ 15 replies \ @freetx 23 Nov \ on: BITCOIN CORE'S LOSS OF FOCUS bitcoin
- Decentralized
- Secure
- Fast and Cheap
Pick 2.
Why don't proponents of covenants first actually build some pressing new features using covenants and get people to buy-in to their vision.
This sales pitch of "Lets just implement it and I promise that it will all work out" is an absurd elevator pitch that has zero real chance of getting buy-in.
I think the OP built a mockup of Vault, and there is a demo of CTV as well.
Lightning clearly could benefit from some of these improvements given how difficult self-sovereign use of LN is and how few people chose to use it that way.
reply
Vaults make the self-custody scaling problem worse, not better. They're very inefficient, requiring approximately double the on-chain space to perform a signalling function that could be done just fine off-chain with a normal multisig wallet.
I need to write up a good article on them one of these days... They're just not a very compelling idea.
reply
OP built a mockup of Vault, and there is a demo of CTV as well.
Thank you for this.
given how difficult self-sovereign use of LN
Agreed. But, is any of that surprising? How many people run their own email server?
I just don't think there is much demand for it....(sadly)
reply
Agreed. But, is any of that surprising? How many people run their own email server?
Maybe they would if it wouldn't be so difficult because it got captured by big corporations
I just don't think there is much demand for it....(sadly)
You are right, because it is currently so difficult.
I think this is also related: If you ask users what they want (= demand), they will tell you they want the proverbial faster horse.
reply
reply
why amounts smaller than the dust limits?
500 sats / 0.02 cents iiuc.
I mean do you have a specific use case?
there is always going to be some lower bound you know!
reply
By specifying the dust limit, I was trying to get at the need for some kind of way to accept small value payments.
While the dust limit is currently pretty low value, you'd have to be crazy to sell anything for such a payment size on chain. Honestly, I'd rather not have a utxo worth less than a million sats. If fees go up and I've been accepting 10k sat payments, I'm going to lose a lot of value consolidating.
I figure, any scheme for bitcoin that allows you to accept payment sizes below the dust limit necessarily fixes this problem.
Also stacker news and nostr zaps are great examples of micro payment use cases.
reply
A tangential issue: As you approach the low ends of dust limit (or below the dust limit), obviously the economic value becomes negligible.
This has the effect of lowering the risk to the point that its no longer really worth anyones effort to self-custody that.
"SQL" (which is how zaps work), becomes a fine solution at or below the dust limit, because the risk is so low.
The other viable alternative at that level is CashU.
I think its entirely possible that this is how the landscape eventually develops:
500,000+ SAT = BTC Mainchain
1000 to 500,000 SAT = LN
.1 - 1000 SAT = SQL / Cashu / etc
reply
I think the most I have sent via lightning is 100k sats (for my territory payment lol)
I saw in another thread you asked if territory owners are making money... I am not, I am waiting for sub-territories to launch
Why don't proponents of covenants first actually build some pressing new features using covenants and get people to buy-in to their vision.
They already did, I think you just aren't aware.
One more example next to what @Scoresby mentioned: there is a more efficient version of Ark that would use covenants iirc
reply
reply
reply