My thoughts on Bitcoin Maximalist \ stacker news ~alter

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1009 sats \ 24 comments \ @Noobboy 27 Nov alter_native

When I joined Stacker News, I asked a beginner question about Bitcoin. A user named Darthcoin replied almost instantly with a detailed answer and links to some amazing guides he’d made. At first, I thought he was a bot or maybe even a scammer. But when I checked his profile and saw how popular he was, I realized I was wrong. He’s what I call a “Bitcoinist” (someone who’s super passionate about Bitcoin and sees it as the money of the future).I started reading his guides and learned a lot of about Bitcoin, the Lightning Network (LN), and more. One of his guides was about Bitcoin Maximalists, and I was like what is that dude? Then I got to know that Bitcoin Maximalist is someone who’s all-in on Bitcoin. They believe it’s sound money and trust it way more than fiat or any other investment. This really got me thinking because I always thought Bitcoin and fiat would just exist side by side forever, like different payment options. But Bitcoin seems different—it’s trusted by people all over the world, beyond borders. Fiat, on the other hand, is only trusted inside countries borders.

Even though Bitcoin has been around for over a decade, most people don’t use it like they use fiat (June 2023, there were about 81.7 million Bitcoin users globally only 1% of the population). Most of these people treat it as an investment or trade it for other cryptos like ETH, DOGE, or SOL. Out of these users, I bet less than 5% are true Bitcoin Maximalists.

So here’s my question: If Bitcoin becomes more popular in 20 years or is on the verge to take on fiat, will governments even let that happen? I’ve read about people like Snowden and Assange, and it makes me think governments don’t really want us to be independent or strong. If they see Bitcoin empowering people, won’t they try to stop it? Maybe by making more laws and regulations, saying it’s to fight corruption, crime, or black markets?

I know I’m just a noob and could be very wrong, but I’m super open to learning.

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112 sats \ 3 replies \ @DesertDave 27 Nov

They can't do anything to stop it. Those who don't embrace it, will be left behind. Hopefully the US is learning this now. Bitcoin is math. It's inevitable. There is going to be huge shifts in power in the near future.

12 sats \ 1 reply \ @Noobboy OP 27 Nov

There is going to be huge shifts in power in the near future

I truly hope this happens.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DesertDave 27 Nov

It seems inevitable to me. The longer I am in the Bitcoin space, the more certain I am. It's been 7 years now. I will keep stacking and waiting patiently.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 27 Nov

They can't do anything to stop it

Friedrich Hayek: "I don't believe we shall ever have good money until we take it out of hands of the government. We can't take it violently out of the hands of the government, so all we can do is by some sly roundabout way introduce something that they can't stop."

55 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 27 Nov

will governments even let that happen?

There's a huge assumption in that question: i.e. governments are capable of stopping it from happening. Examine that assumption carefully and you'll become far more optimistic.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 27 Nov

If they use it for their platform to get elected, you know they are just trying to pander. They are playing catch up.

110 sats \ 0 replies \ @nerd2ninja 27 Nov

will governments even let that happen?

Who said we were asking for permission?

Sorry I gotta write more, but yeah look at all your shitcoins and know if the government banned them, they would go away, but Bitcoin (which has been banned in many countries) persists

41 sats \ 4 replies \ @ek 27 Nov

If they see Bitcoin empowering people, won’t they try to stop it?

Some if not most governments will surely try and then game theory will play out. Some countries like El Salvador are already adopting bitcoin.

Not adopting bitcoin will be like not adopting the internet. That’s also why it’s never too late to adopt bitcoin.

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @Noobboy OP 27 Nov

I used to think that Salvador was just an exception and that people in developing countries were the least likely to be Bitcoin maximalists.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 27 Nov

Developing countries have the most to gain from adopting Bitcoin. It's the inverse for developed countries.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Noobboy OP 28 Nov

I see you're right, I still have a lot to learn.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 27 Nov

No country wants to be late to the table. They will all scramble to adopt it.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @zapsammy 28 Nov

belief in fiat money (a paper document) can be destroyed in your mind today, if you really want it.

if you absolutely have to get paid in fiat, forward everything to someone else's account and have them send you bitcoin in return. if you need something, send them bitcoin and they'll get whatever you need for fiat.

as for other fiat documents, like identification, passport, registration, licenses - that will take some time to eliminate or reconstruct in your favor, but if you go all into bitcoin, your mind will be freed up to think about those other items more.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 27 Nov

Once you understand this concept combined with the unstoppable nature of Bitcoin you can eschew the noise that is everything else... Maxi's like Darth live in the future because this train has no breaks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Num%C3%A9raire

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark 27 Nov

Darth is a literal wealth of knowledge. His guides are a fantastic resource

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 27 Nov

FTS

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @satoshiiiiiii 27 Nov

Goverments are bullshits.

Anyone can connect to a country which has good politics about Bitcoin.

So forever it is gonna stay International.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 27 Nov

"But Bitcoin seems different—it’s trusted by people all over the world, beyond borders. Fiat, on the other hand, is only trusted inside countries borders."

Really nice sentence.

Ban Bitcoin? They couldn't even ban torrents. You give governments too much credit.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @j7hB75 27 Nov

The only thing I see as adding complications for adopting a Bitcoin Standard in the future would be the implementation of a CBDC.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Myshkin 27 Nov

Thanks for posting. I'm not really confident that Bitcoin will ever be considered as fiat in terms of spending patterns. Mainly because:

It's not fiat, it's sound money. And people think twice before wasting sound money.
Because of point (1), people tend to think about it as a resource to increase their purchasing power across time and store it across time and space. Which means that, if both fiat and bitcoin is available as payment option and the payer holds sufficient quantity of both, the incentives are to spend fiat. Which means that, as long as fiat resists, people ar incentivized to perpetuate its existence by collateralizing sats in order to get some fiat. And then spend fiat and pay back the loan hoping that the mid-term appreciation of sats vs fiat will be faster than the interests of the loan.

Honestly, I feel that the real proportion of Maxis among the "crypto users" is way below 5%...probably 5% of the "bitcoiners" are maxis. And if we consider "holding only bitcoin and not shitcoins" as a necessary condition for being a Maxi, then it's in the range of 0.01% - 0.1% of the crypto holders.

So, most "bitcoiners" own also shitcoins. Most Maxis, which we assumed are the "bitcoin only people" tend to have a profound understanding of bitcoin and its potential. Which means that they tend to NOT be willing to spend it daily. From an incentives perspective, Maxis are the less incentivized to spend it.

If you're bitcoin only, then you may be spending it out of necessity and because you're literally forced to do it.

I hold sats, my savings are sats. All I own is sats, and I spend sats. Daily. And I know that this is NOT what bitcoiners usually do. Which makes me a crazy idealistic fool that is burning future wealth just to make a living today.

My question to any bitcoiner is: are you willing to be an idealistic fool that burns future wealth to make a living today? The answer to that has always been "NO".

I guess I'll die both fiat-poor and sats-poor. Anyone will think that I've been a fool, but I feel thisbis the ONLY way by which bitcoin can win. Bitcoin wins if us, bitcoiners, actively destroy fiat by not owning it, not using sats as collateral for shitcoins or fiat.

Ar you willing to do it? To be the sacrificial lamb?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 2 Dec

It's not fiat, it's sound money. And people think twice before wasting sound money.

People will also think twice before accepting shit money at some point.

You're thinking about Gresham's law but it only applies if you're forced to accept the bad money due to (effective) legal tender laws. When that's not the case anymore, Thier's law will apply:

Those examples show that in the absence of effective legal tender laws, Gresham's law works in reverse. If given the choice of what money to accept, people will accept the money they believe to be of highest long-term value, and not accept what they believe to be of low long-term value. If not given the choice and required to accept all money, good and bad, they will tend to keep the money of greater perceived value in their own possession and pass the bad money to others.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @hasherstacker 27 Nov

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 27 Nov

Some governments will resist and try to ban it or make it difficult for their citizens to hold and transact with, while others with embrace it.

Surprisingly the US has been embracing it but that can change with the 4 year political cycles and if they see it as a threat to the dollar. Right now they see it as only a store of value and no threat to the USD but their perspective of Bitcoin will surely change if they believe it is a threat.

40 sats \ 0 replies \ @Noobboy OP 28 Nov

Some governments will resist and try to ban it or make it difficult for their citizens to hold and transact with, while others with embrace it.

My biggest fear.

Surprisingly the US has been embracing it but that can change with the 4 year political cycles and if they see it as a threat to the dollar. Right now they see it as only a store of value and no threat to the USD but their perspective of Bitcoin will surely change if they believe it is a threat.

You're right about this.