I saw a protein bar in a plastic wrapper today with a slogan saying "vegan-friendly", and it made me wonder... why is plastic considered "vegan-friendly"?
Isn't all plastic derived from fossil fuel? And isn't all fossil fuel derived from animal fossils? Seems to me like plastic is one of the most "vegan-unfriendly" materials out there...
The vast majority of living matter is plants, not animal, therefor the vast majority of oil derives from plants.
That said, this is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of what veganism is. Veganism is about avoiding animal "exploitation" to whatever extent possible. Being turned into oil after dying in tar 100 million years ago has nothing whatsoever to do with human exploitation of animals.
I hear you, but whenever I hear the phrase "to whatever extent possible", it seems like a cop-out for "to whatever extent I deem convenient". If all of a sudden some component of veganism becomes too inconvenient, would they just change the rules?
"Possible" isn't really that weak of a condition. You'd have to be very disingenuous to interpret that as "convenient". I don't know why anyone would do that, since there aren't any social advantages to being vegan.
If there were some sort of mandate to be vegan, then I'm sure people would invoke all manner of excuses. That's not the world we live in, though.
"Possible" is a really strong condition. The reason I replace it with convenient is because I don't think anyone takes the word "possible" seriously.
It's possible to live in a world without plywood, glue, and dyes derived from animals, but I don't know any vegans who are willing to go that far. It's just not very convenient.
You're right. The real definition uses the word "practicable", which is obviously weaker.
Like most ethical systems, there's an acknowledgement that living requires being able to act without fully accounting for the morality of each action.
That's a more accurate word, still feels odd to me that the rules are open to so much interpretation
When extreme moral philosophies try to exist in a complex economy, allowances have to be made for human limitations.
Abolitionists couldn't exist entirely without the products of slavery and anarchists can't exist independent of the state, but that doesn't change the point of what they're trying to do.
they might not be from fossils
https://earthscience.stackexchange.com/questions/10823/are-fossil-fuels-really-formed-from-fossils
interesting, @Undisciplined mentioned something similar above.
seems strange that I've never heard anyone question whether fossil fuels are actually from fossils, and maybe we should. Would be interesting to figure out where the term originated and what the intent was...
I've heard of alternate hypotheses about where petroleum comes from, but I've never really looked into it.
I think a lot of people place value in things that dont matter.
They arent seeing the big picture, and just look at minute details.
I feel the vegans that arent shouting are the ones we should be listening to.
They seem to understand there are ethical ways of eating meat, and they choose to not want to participate.
They arent the ones trying to stop people from eating meat.
I see a lot of vegans that cheat on their diet, too.
Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made.
That is true.
I dont really care, to be honest.
But if you ever hang out or go out with them, and they cheat on their diet...they always give an excuse to justify it.
Even if I didnt ask.
That's because they feel guilty about it and don't want you to think less of them.
Right, but it isnt me who is putting the shackles on them.
It was their decision.
Clearly, but imagine someone catching you doing something you think is wrong. You wouldn't be thinking about how it's the shackles that you put on yourself. You'd just be embarrassed.
Wouldnt you think about changing your mindset?
After experiencing it so many times, I dont think they really feel embarrassed.
I can't speak for people I don't know. In my experience, vegans are on their best behavior when others are watching, just like most people.
I'm surprised people who claim to be vegan cheat on it in front of you. They must be very comfortable around you.
Vegans that are vegans for ethical reasons aren't opposed to animals dying naturally and their bodies finding other uses. They're against killing animals that would otherwise be alive.
Are they ok with using leather, furs, or something like an ivory tusk from animals that died naturally? I thought those kinds of animal by-products were against the rules no matter what
Probably, assuming they felt confident that they died naturally.
You'd think, but many vegans aren't.
I think it's fine, from a vegan standpoint, but they'll talk about how that stuff is supposed to circulate back into the ecosystem.
Ah I can image that
I have a friend that doesnt like to sit in vintage leather cars.
He also comments on my redwing boots.
i guess that's the hard part, is it ok if the animal that dies naturally lives on a farm? if not, it would be very difficult to find a dead wild animal before another living animal made a meal out of them
The only addition I have to this convo is the dinosaur meme
this is so funny! =D
makes you think
Fossil fuel is definitely not derived out of animal fossils. But yes, I agree to "plastic is vegan unfriendly" because it's first turned into chemicals that are harmful. Veganism represents the idea of not harming animals for consumption and not harming ourselves as well. The "jainism" wouldn't allow you eat something wrapped in plastic.
Selective reasoning is always the answer to these types of questions.
Which then just comes back to ethical choices and the environmental impact they choose to have on the world. But I am always of the mindset of “live and let live.”
At the end of the day it’s progress for the individual in whatever capacity that is in their lives. Bringing things to light is all we can do.
Let us remember that these people, by not eating meat, do not usually think clearly.
Great question. Always ask 5 whys. If you do veganism hits some struggles….
Why do you associated plastic with vegan?
They are talking about the product, not the package.
the package is part of the product.
if the package was made of leather, they wouldn't be labeling it as vegan friendly.
Your post reminded me of an article I read years ago:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/06/no_author/why-are-mariijuana-hemp-cannabis-outlawed/
Do you get bothered by vegans?
Purity in anything is difficult. You will need to make some choices and tradeoffs.
Most fossil fuels are derived from dead plants not dead dinosaurs.
Fair, but if vegan "leather" was made of 10% real leather, would vegans be ok with using it?
AFAIK there's no way to separate which particles of oil are derived from animals and which are derived from plants.
Dino-juice
There are plant based plastics but you ask a good question.
I'm aware of PLA as a plant sugar-based plastic, but it looks like that has less than 1% marketshare in product packaging globally.
Are there any other more popular plastics that don't contain any animal products?
I agree with you, however, the big industries have not questioned this and therefore consider the content vegan but not its packaging, and in the pharmaceutical industry this has improved as there are drugs in the form of capsules that are purely natural gel. but still work remains to be done in this type of food area. if they can produce something 100% vegan, those chocolate bars should come in another type of packaging.