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Your Terms Are Broken (Conservative / Liberal)

949 sats \ 42 comments \ @kepford 11h Politics_And_Law

Have you ever tried to explain the political factions in the US to a curious young person? If you haven't you might not realize how little sense they make. This is only becoming more evident with the radical changes the current admin are making.

I have to say I'm enjoy being a spectator of it all. When I was a kid the dems were called liberals and they called themselves liberals. The republicans didn't always call themselves conservatives but over the years that has become more of the case.

These days with a new admin that is hardly conservative, the left is losing their mind because of the new admin's strategy for reforming the executive branch. When I listen to them they sound a lot like conservatives. Talking about how long this thing or that thing has been in place. How these kids are being given power. Its all rather funny and hypocritical to me.

Conservatives typically don't like change but they seem to like the new approach in Washington. I would argue what is going on is NOT conservative. Its actually pretty radical. I have long thought that the conservative movement was a joke. What are they conserving? They seem to never get the core problems and how deep the rot goes. They seem to be stuck in some nostalgic dream of a time that never existed. A perpetual 20 years ago time that never existed. When education was great and morals were more to their liking.

Michael Malice said it best I think, "Conservatives are progressives going the speed limit".

The dems typically call themselves progressive now which is also a bad descriptor. They seem to be bigger moralists than their opponents. Rather than progressing towards a bright future, blazing a new trail they seem to want to try to old meritless ideas of old men like Marx. Their answers to every problem are centralizing power and giving more of your freedoms away. This is hardly a progressive or new idea. Its an old idea. One of a strong state that controls more of your life. Its hardly liberal either.

I don't have new terms that work and even if I did good luck changing them :)

Just one man's observation.

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145 sats \ 4 replies \ @SimpleStacker 10h

IMO the political battle lines are more along the lines of globalism vs. nationalism now. This includes fights over immigration and culture.

300 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 9h

Culture is a social construct. Race is a social construct. Immigration status is a social construct. No person is illegal. Borders are a social construct. We are all blank slates. Everyone is equal.

9 sats \ 1 reply \ @ala 7h

Thanks! Made my day.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 3h

I was being sarcastic in case you thought I was serious

39 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford OP 10h

Dead right, and this is around the globe.

101 sats \ 4 replies \ @LibertasBR 11h

I agree. The so-called "progressives" are nothing more than opportunists, selling themselves as innovation taking for themselves the agendas that would make Lenin and Stalin turn in their graves, and I mention these two because we know that for them the ideal of government is good old communism with the central government controlling everything and everyone.

Regarding the conservatives, I see that they have been aligning themselves with some liberal agendas focused on the economy, as politicians here in my country say "Liberal in the economy and conservative in customs" which is a contradiction in itself. And many of these conservatives are in fact true progressives by the definition of the word.

64 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford OP 11h

What is really funny is that in Europe it is my understanding that liberal typically means liberal economic policy, the government being more hands off. In the US these people call themselves classical liberals which is really the group that became libertarians. Libertarians tend to be laissez-faire on economics and prioritize individual's decisions on moral matters.

This whole thing is why I don't use any of these labels anymore.

People don't understand what they mean historically or even in current times
Even if they do they hardly encompass all of what someone thinks
Unless someone explains what they mean by a label/term you are just assuming you agree on definitions.
People tend to lump others into groups and straw man them. One could argue I did this in this post even.

If I have a conversation with someone about politics or economics I tend to ask a lot of questions. Probing questions that give me a clearer picture of what they believe and why. People like to talk about themselves and why they think certain things. If they don't like that then they probably aren't gonna say anything very interesting. If I probe and get nothing usually their just a NPC repeating the programming.

72 sats \ 0 replies \ @LibertasBR 10h

I also usually do this to know who I'm talking to and how I should talk to that person. As much as I have labeled it, it is the easiest way to define a huge group of people who have common ideas. In my daily life I am very political and I rarely get into discussions, I express my thoughts, which I consider to be libertarian, in a healthy way and when I am provoked to do so. I'm still learning this philosophy, but for me it's the one that best represents the world and human beings.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 9h

My favorite outdated trope is you watch Fox News.

Right here on SN. Three different users. Their clip is empty.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 9h

Opportunists is a euphemism for money launderers

50 sats \ 1 reply \ @note_bene 8h

Progressive: removal of choice.
- Everyone must take the vax
- Everyone must wear a mask
- Every business must stay closed
- Nobody can homeschool
- Nobody can own firearms
Right wing: exclusion of subgroups.
- if you weren't born here, you're not really part of this small town
- Women shouldn't vote
- Gays can't call their unions "marriage"
- Infidels out of the Holy Lands
- Only Samoans can be real Hawaiians.

What we called liberalism is probably (and the USA has been pretty good at) is staying away and moving away from either of these polarities - both the Left's removal of choice and the Right's institutionalization of exclusion. Until recently of course.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jgbtc 1h

Can you elaborate on the Samoan/Hawaiian point?

82 sats \ 13 replies \ @Undisciplined 10h

I've mentioned before that "conservative" and "liberal" are really poor distinctions to try and use in America.

America was founded on liberal principles (however poorly implemented or adhered to). That means American conservatives almost have to be (classical) liberals.

33 sats \ 12 replies \ @kepford OP 10h

Have you ever tried to explain this to a "conservative"?

"You know... actually you're more of a liberal than a conservative..."

74 sats \ 11 replies \ @Undisciplined 9h

Yeah, but most of the "conservatives" I interact with are more country club Republican types, who already realize that.

50 sats \ 6 replies \ @kepford OP 9h

I really think most people aren't that concerned with logic, reason, or being consistent in their ideology. You see this all the time if you pay attention. I think its why we see so much of the autistic in the liberty movement... they can't just "accept" all the logical inconsistencies...

At least that's what I think is up with me...

49 sats \ 5 replies \ @Undisciplined 9h

I agree completely. Dave Smith points this out all the time, when he's talking about the futility of arguing with statists.

It doesn't matter how many amazing arguments you make, even if the person acknowledges them at the time. As soon as that conversation is over, they'll forget all about it and revert right back to where they started.

Many of us, on the other hand, would be kept up all night trying to reconcile the inconsistencies exposed in our world view.

48 sats \ 4 replies \ @kepford OP 9h

I first realized this when I was a "conservative". It was about the Constitution. Conservatives used to harp on the Constitution to people that have a completely different view of the document. It is an incredible waste of time.

I've just landed on this simple view.

Both parties just want power. They will lie, cheat, and steal to get it. They don't care about logic, reason, or consistency. Both sides are pretty equal in this. They want to smash the other into the ground. No one on either side seems to desire a world where we can live together, separately in peace not violating each other's rights. There seems to be "only winning". Which just means endless violence IMO.

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30 sats \ 3 replies \ @kepford OP 9h

Interesting. We have very different circles...

If it wasn't clear I'm a red-neck pretending to be a techno-nerd.

58 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 9h

Yeah, my social circle has almost always been liberal academics, even though I'm from backwoods libertarian stock.

36 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 9h

Classical liberal academics?

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180 sats \ 5 replies \ @7e6e393a56 10h

Just titles. The vast majority of elected politicians, regardless of their side, do not have even basic knowledge about the history of these terms. What they really want is to benefit from the perks given in their position. That's why I don't care about what the politician says, but rather what he does in practice.

29 sats \ 4 replies \ @kepford OP 10h

Yep

20 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 9h

Activist judges are worse than politicians

9 sats \ 2 replies \ @7e6e393a56 7h

Undoubtedly! They become dictators

20 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 3h

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2025/02/11/alex-marlow-lawfare-judges-making-unprecedented-efforts-to-shut-down-trumps-agenda/

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @7e6e393a56 3h

Great report. You can see how interests clash with the impartiality that should exist in justice

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51 sats \ 5 replies \ @denlillaapan 10h

Michael Malice said it best I think, "Conservatives are progressives going the speed limit

Loooove that quote haha. Malice is the best

9 sats \ 4 replies \ @kepford OP 10h

I remember when I first heard it... its so true of "conservatives" I know. Unless you ground yourself in principles you will just float with the tides.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 9h

I don’t care about Trump political affiliation. I hope he succeeds in draining the swamp and eliminating usaid and fema and department of education etc

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford OP 8h

Trump is very practical. IMO that's a key to his success. I don't think most people care about capital P politics. By that I mean ideology or purity. That should be obvious and that's why so many libertarians fail in persuading people.

9 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford OP 9h

edit:

To be clear... I don't care about Trump's affiliation and I love seeing the deep state exposed. I'm not naive though. He's not trying to destroy the state. I'd bet money he's made deals with the MIC and is gonna do plenty of terrible things, but for all the fear mongering about Trump he was no where as deadly of a leader as those before and after him. He was a threat so they make him out to be Hitler. He's not even close. I'm enjoying this season of Trump. Its entertaining.

To be clear though. USAID is not being eliminated. Its being rolled into the state dept. Its clear that Trump's team is MUCH smarter than the Washington establishment assumed. The methods they are using are surprising. They really aren't using the system to fight the system. Its fascinating.

I don't think they are really trying to drain the "swap" though. Just remove certain aspects they don't like. Its a start.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 9h

Edit: Drain the swamp by reducing payroll. Federal employees are more deleterious than actual policies.

Trump needs to fire most if not all the 20 million contractors working for the federal government and agencies such as USAID.

Contractors don’t have the same union protection as 3 million full time federal employees.

Fire the ones who refuse to come to the office.

I’m waiting for a judge to rule that remote work is protected under collective bargaining.

Federal unions were created by executive order, JFK.

Trump should revoke that executive order

55 sats \ 0 replies \ @itsrealfake 10h

the terms get even weirder.

there's some definition: "liberal" as in "liberal application of law to adjust society"

vs. "conservative" as in "uses laws conservatively, to adjust society"

there's another definition:

Liberalism - as in preferring individual liberties (e.g. natural rights, etc), which is the definition I think many bitcoiners would adhere to, in most cases.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @optimism 7h

Screw the labels. They're just there to polarize and divide the plebs for the continued rule of your overlord class.

You gain nothing by applying labels to people or even ideas. Only those in power do, to narrate their butts into more power, for them.

If they insist on labels, we shall label them enemy of the people.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 9h

Democrats are money launderers. Northern Virginia and parts of Maryland depend on usaid for their livelihood. Without it they will become homeless or move to the poor neighborhoods of DC. Their kids will have to attend public schools where they will be exposed to real diversity.

I pray for this to happen

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford OP 9h

I like how Thomas Massey describes that region. Its Mordor. The dark power that is centralized in D.C. draws all sorts of leaches that want to use the power of the one ring. Some may have good intentions but the power corrupts them. I think most are corrupted and their evil is what has drawn to the evil dark lord's power.

I cheer what is happening with USAID. Its a deep state machine used by the CIA for decades to do untold evil across the globe. I hope more is revealed.

More importantly this all opens up the door to ask people why the state needs to steal the money of plebs to do all this stuff. If these leftists want all this they have money... spend it themselves. Fund these NGOs directly in the light of day.

If USAID was funding the spread of the Gospel of Jesus to the world these people would be cheering its destruction.

I've been suggesting to conservatives that we should just change the tax form making check boxes for the use of our stolen money. Kinda just trying to open their minds to thinking about how evil taxes really are. I think most people just don't think about this stuff deeply at all and with all this... we have a golden opportunity.