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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @028559d218 10 Mar \ on: John McAffe has coke-fueled rant on Bitcoin vs. Monero monero
How is Monero (or Bitcoin for that matter) going to be "money for the world" and simultaneously be hidden in the shadows?
Where "one fuck up" and the government will "own you"? The Bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency eventually) will eventually be used at the grocery store, the gas station, at community events, at the town-square... so the government knows you are using Bitcoin... great.
So will other hundreds of millions of people use it, for many reasons. How will it remain in the shadows at that point where you have to 'hide it'? If it's truly a global money for the whole world to save in and utilize, why hide it? It will eventually be everywhere.
In addition, if "tax reporting" is required for every coffee or package of ramen noodles you purchased at the corner store... what is the point of 'privacy' if you have to report every transaction anyway?
No-one is seriously going to use crypto-currency for every transaction for day-to-day purchases if they are worried about every single capital-gains event for cups of coffee for small purchases. If they are, then it's not 'mainstream'.
And if it IS mainstream... what are you trying to hide?
And if you ARE trying to hide, then you need specialized tools, in communication, navigation, authentication so you know you you're talking to, plus care in how you use them. A de-googled phone plus a deep-dive in internet-privacy which is much more than cryptocurrency.
And at that point... the greatest 'cloak' (if you will) for any tool is a massive anonymity set of hundreds of millions of other people using it... which implies mass adoption and education and the ability for the 'blockchain' to scale. So you need lots of off-chain scaling.
The idea that Monero needs "mass adoption" to be useful misses the entire point of privacy coins. Privacy tools are valuable precisely because they're specialized - not because everyone uses them.
Your "global money" vs "hidden in shadows" argument creates a false dichotomy. Financial privacy doesn't mean hiding in shadows - it means having the same privacy in digital transactions that you expect with cash.
When governments inevitably track Bitcoin usage at grocery stores and gas stations, that's exactly when Monero becomes most valuable. Privacy isn't about "hiding" - it's about preventing financial surveillance.
Your tax reporting example actually makes the case for Monero. With Bitcoin, every coffee purchase creates a taxable event with a permanent public record. Monero gives you the same privacy as cash transactions.
As for needing "specialized tools" - Monero's privacy is built-in at the protocol level. No complex "de-googled phone plus deep-dive in internet privacy" required. The privacy works by default.
The strongest privacy tool isn't one that requires "hundreds of millions" of users - it's one that works regardless of user count. That's Monero's fundamental advantage over Bitcoin's transparent ledger.
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The idea that Monero needs "mass adoption" to be useful misses the entire point of privacy coins. Privacy tools are valuable precisely because they're specialized - not because everyone uses them.
I respectfully don't understand this point (and it's been made elsewhere?) Anonymity set of people actually using it... matters a lot not just the on-chain set.
If you're the only person among millions using Monero... using Monero for anything and you automatically stand out in the real world. I have no reason to believe that Monero is commonly used... the only thing I've heard about it is that 'swapping in' is easy. Swapping out sometimes difficult due to low liquidity.
When governments inevitably track Bitcoin usage at grocery stores and gas stations, that's exactly when Monero becomes most valuable. Privacy isn't about "hiding" - it's about preventing financial surveillance.
I don't know how Lightning transactions (assuming they're common-place and widespread especially) can be tracked. The actual 'Lightning' transaction isn't on-chain.
Your tax reporting example actually makes the case for Monero. With Bitcoin, every coffee purchase creates a taxable event with a permanent public record. Monero gives you the same privacy as cash transactions.
I think people will use the network with the greatest liquidity, price performance, HW support and SW support, auditability, and chain-continuity (in absence of hardforks in other words) not to mention security (like multisig).
I don't know how people would even use the monero... or store it securely without the hardware wallets we have for Btc.
As for needing "specialized tools" - Monero's privacy is built-in at the protocol level. No complex "de-googled phone plus deep-dive in internet privacy" required. The privacy works by default.
If people want privacy they absolutely positively need a de-googled phone and a deep dive in internet privacy would help immensely. There is no privacy otherwise I think
The strongest privacy tool isn't one that requires "hundreds of millions" of users - it's one that works regardless of user count. That's Monero's fundamental advantage over Bitcoin's transparent ledger.
I don't believe this. Order something with the 'most private' crypto that practically noone uses... even if the shipping is private or otherwise discreet you are the only one using that crypto I don't see how privacy can be achieved/how this helps.
I understand your comments and I respect other points of view... however I haven't seen even the basic modicum of education around Bitcoin and Lightning with great Lightning wallets, price performance, and 'name brand' and that's with 'Bitcoin'. The adoption of 'something else' when it's 'hard to get' (Monero is delisted almost everywhere) not to mention low liquidity is a really hard sell.
If people can't easily get it, how can they save in it? And if they don't save in it, how do they learn about it first and foremost? And if it doesn't retain purchasing power why would merchants accept it to begin with?
There was an interview with the Founder of Proton a while back (GREAT company) and the Seth for Privacy Guy (?) and they had a long conversation which touched on the new Proton Wallet. I've listened to it a few times... and Andy's argument for a Bitcoin Proton Wallet is that it has by far the biggest network and adoption so far... and is the 'safest' product in cryptocurrency that they can support. And the only one they can support for the foreseeable future too. He says that 'fiat' is next... because that's what a lot of their users want.
Andy also said... that if Proton accepted Monero at all they might lose their accounting contractors due to its poor/illicit reputation where it's 'hard enough' to get accounting firms to work with Bitcoin. A very interesting listen Andy is pretty smart.
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