pull down to refresh

There's a headline I never thought I would write.
But honestly, if I'm being practical and constructive etc and not "tear it all down, politics is a waste of human space!" it's pretty important for the functioning of American political institutions that there are two opposing forces. Readily available alternatives etc.
Right now there isn't... and extreme Democrats are tripping over themselves to becomes even worse versions of their prior selves. That's not good. Something broke in the minds of most intellectuals/academics/wokies/vegetarians in the last decade or two (#890832, #829287). That's not good.
Rana is on to something:
Even thoughtful Republicans are worried about Democrats’ inability to stand up to Trump, particularly given the risk his economic strategies could push the country into recession. At a recent high-profile Yale business school gathering of chief executives, there was huge disgruntlement about his plans and deep concern for America’s economic future. 
This is an interesting approach—while lamentable, probably doable:
While some, like Sanders, Murphy and Senator Elizabeth Warren, want to go down the populist route, the party leadership and the majority of the Democratic donor base seem to want to go back to some version of Obama-Clinton-era neoliberalism. This focused on identity rather than class, pushed free trade for its own sake and focused not on industrial strategy (and with it the interests of workers) but on making government itself more efficient.
Plus left-intellectual hot shots like Ezra Klein and Derek Thomson, fr Abundance:

"They argue that Democrats need to get out of their own way and make it easier for government to do things."

.... then Rana goes shitass berserk wrong:
There’s much to be said for this advice, but it also skates over what I believe to be the key economic dysfunction in the US economy today: power asymmetry. The private sector, and particularly a handful of big companies, have too much money and power — something embodied by Elon Musk’s unprecedented proximity to Trump and the billionaire-filled seats at the president’s inauguration — while workers have far too little.
Emphatically not America's problem (#890832, #907759).
As long as this electoral structure is in place, and if you believe that unfettered markets fail to provide key public goods, then you have to think genuine economic populism — not the fake Maga kind — will be the winning formula for the Democrats. But that means rich liberals must think beyond their own interests.
I don't think either of those things are problems, but hey what do I know; I'm just a lowly pleb on the internet, not an insider intelligentsia at a top journalist job. (actually...)
As long as this electoral structure is in place, and if you believe that unfettered markets fail to provide key public goods, then you have to think genuine economic populism — not the fake Maga kind — will be the winning formula for the Democrats. But that means rich liberals must think beyond their own interests.
This isn't new. Dems hate the electoral college and want straight pop vote. The dems have been losing the working class for decades. They are out of touch. If they wanna win it's simple. Drop the woke crap and get back to blue collar and the working people. I'm speaking strategy. Neither party actually does what's good for the people but the dems seem to actively hate the people they claim to represent.
Its simple. They pushed to far to the left. Trump is NOT a radical right wing free marketer. It makes me chuckle to read these fools. Unfettered. Right. Try running a business in the US. It would be nice to see the dems basically copy Trump and the Right to actually support free market capitalism for a change. But I'm dreaming.
reply
"dismantling the state," right! #907759
yeah, totally. But to what extent do you think the left = Dems here? Where are the left-wing peeps who a) aren't beholding to Dem party, and b) aren't woke/retarded?
reply
Bill Maher is one. Jon Stewart is another. I don't know a ton of names because, I don't care enough but I do know and have talked to democrat voters that were not happy with Harris but also don't like Trump. I think the democrats have pushed out a ton of people from their party over the past 10 years.
Its absolutely absurd how many people in left wing politics do not understand how many liberal men they have lost. Rogan is not a conservative for example. TONS of people in the Trump movement are NOT conservatives. They are former democrats and liberals. The dems are way out of touch.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that Democrat politicians won't turn on a dime and drop the woke stuff. I suspect they will but it may take them losing more elections.
reply
Yea, that's what i mean: These people arent "left" anymore
reply
Sure they are. They just don't hold the same views as others. The party moved to their left.
reply
I actually think the root of leftwing dysfunction in America and Western Europe is their inability to acknowledge some basic realities, which can be summarized thusly:
  • It is legitimate political discourse for people to care about their cultural heritage and traditions, including things like racial composition, gender norms, religious traditions, and language.
Until the left can acknowledge this reality, they won't be able to have a productive conversation with anyone other than their own echo chamber. And the pressures caused by the above just keep building because there's no resolution... they are so firmly committed to their neoliberal view of the world that reduces everyone to a mere consumer and reduces success to economic growth.
reply
wow, you just equated the left and neoliberal.
Teleport back to my university self and I'm utterly confused. Actually, my present self is utterly confused.
reply
Well, there's an alliance between the left and the neoliberals isn't there?
And the neoliberals, while not as radical as the left on cultural issues, definitely see the cultural concerns as parochial and beneath them, not fitting for a person of their upbringing and stature. The dysfunction stems from their utter inability to communicate about these issues in a way that makes sense to regular people.
reply
I wasn't aware neoliberals existed, let alone having an alliance with anyone. (its a poltergheist term for "anything I dislike")
reply
Wouldn't the Obama and Hilary Clinton types (WEF Davos peeps) be classified as Neoliberal?
reply
Absolutely not.
I mean, you can use terms to mean whatever you like, and this quickly gets to the nonsense of using it: It has no meaning.
Something broke in the minds of most intellectuals/academics/wokies/vegetarians in the last decade or two (#890832, #829287). That's not good.
Why is it not good. I think it's great! Both sides broke by the way and I think it is amazingly good for the future. The status quo was terrible. At least now the window of opinion has broadened. Needs to continue not stop.
reply
it's not good: people's brains shouldn't break. Humanity is better off with clever humans thinking than stupid humans shouting.
both sides broke: what's the other side you think broke? If you mean the right, whatever that is/was in the last ~20 years, that doesn't seem to have broken as far as I can tell? If anything it just muddled along from one irrelevancy to the current one.
reply
When you are asleep you need to be shaken. I personally think these people were already stupid, if you wanna use that word on them now. They just didn't sound as dumb. The reason they didn't sounds dumb was because they were winning. This is what it looks like when one side starts losing after decades of slow progress.
both sides broke:
Trump destroyed the republican party and rebuilt it. When he ran the first time the machine opposed him with its full power. He was NOT what they wanted nor did he hold the positions they hold on many areas. He bulldozed then over. The smart ones hopped on his train and are still relevant and in power for the most part. Most that opposed him are openly mocked by the new republican movement today.
Every now and then I turn on the local talk radio station and listen to how different they people calling in sound and the hosts vs. 20 years ago. Its wild how different it is. The center of the party has shifted. The style has shifted. The old party wanted to be liked by the other side. They were soft. They were nice. This is one reason they lost so much. The dems pushed their agenda slowly relentlessly. Conservatives (so called back in the day) were good at losing. They would say the words but never do anything when they had power. Trump changed that.
I'm kinda surprised I have to explain this honestly. Many in the movement talk about it openly now. The old guard is gone and good riddance. The neocons ran the party for decades hand in hand with the dems.
Obviously I think both parties are terrible but I think Trump is a slap in the face people needed. What they do in response is up to them but the status quo of endless wars and pretend fights was worse than what we have now. I've said that for the last 10 years now. Kinda wild that the Trump era is now 10 years. I think a lot of people are bothered by the disappearance of fake civility. But that's just it. They apparently didn't get that it was fake.
I would much rather see rulers like Trump that don't pretend to be nice like an Obama. Obama did terrible things but he looked good and sounded nice so people stayed asleep. Trump isn't shy. What you see is what you get. I think that's better.
I also like that he's degraded the inappropriate dignity of the office. I think we have an unhealthy view of politics and government. Its a bunch of thugs. Its not Trump that is only a thug. Biden was. Obama was. Bush has. They all are crime bosses. They should not be respected. Maybe feared but not respected. They are illegitimate sociopaths that manipulate the people to gain power. They kill, steal, and destroy. Nothing noble about any of them.
reply