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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @cointastical 1 Feb 2022
Has Stacker.news ever been forced (or requested even) to do a DMCA take-down / copyright violation whatever it is known as?
It's hard to know what's still fair use when quoting from an article, ... when the article is only about a paragraph in length.
Just like with Reddit posts, sometimes the comments have better info than the article that the post links to. So why read the article? Especially if all the goods from the article are already found in the SN post's comments?
SN will cause contributors wanting to earn sats to seek the nuggets in the articles and put them in the replies. These are the nuggets that the online media sources specifically hide in their Tweets and in their article titles because they want the user to click.
When this is found with Reddit posts replies it is mostly only occurring because someone wants to quote something to add a comment reply to. But SN provides incentive for someone to do article content copy pasta simply as a method of earning. Will an "SNer" be a new career option? Or will SN give incentive for some smarties to build AI bots that do it better and faster?
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5 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 2 Feb 2022
No takedown notices yet.
I can't imagine this happens too often in the text-based world.
To @nout's point though, I could make a canary.
People will always copy, but finding the valuable content in a long article is fair use IMO.
That's one of our goals. There will probably be a ton of iteration before we get close though. At the very least, I want users to be able to pay their internet bill by being valuable to the community.
Bots would be awesome.
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15 sats \ 1 reply \ @nout 2 Feb 2022
This question made me think that maybe @k00b could consider putting on a canary in the cases where he's forced to do something by the authorities that can't be shared. E.g. this is what Samourai does: https://samouraiwallet.com/canary
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15 sats \ 0 replies \ @nout 2 Feb 2022
@ODELL has short canary section on the bottom here too: https://mattodell.keybase.pub/
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52 sats \ 0 replies \ @cointastical 1 Feb 2022
👀
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1001 sats \ 4 replies \ @cointastical 1 Feb 2022
Interesting comments on HackerNews on Witcoin ... (the earliest attempt at a bitcoin-enabled "Stacker.News"):
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2386518
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2386588
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2386600 <-- Post by the cofounder / sole investor
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2386546
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2386392 <-- Post by the cofounder / sole developer
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5 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b 1 Feb 2022
These are fantastic. Thanks for surfacing them!
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cointastical 2 Feb 2022
I think the takeaway is: SN needs more pics of girls and kittens!
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @cointastical 1 Feb 2022
Funny how SN is so similar to that first crack at this taken more than a decade ago.
So the Jobs sub that you were referring to in the SN Live video .... that's the same thing. Kind of like a different sub, but with a higher fee for posts, right?
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 2 Feb 2022
Yeah it’s eerily similar.
Jobs wouldn’t just have a higher cost, they’d be ranked by the cost and the price would be set like an eBay auction.
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10 sats \ 5 replies \ @cointastical 1 Feb 2022
Ha, ... k00b's been doing some thinking ...
Github Issues
https://github.com/stackernews/stacker.news/issues
- Weekly opt-in email newsletter recapping top posts/comments/users #89
- Add top spenders #90
- Sat bounties #91
- Reward early upvoters of content that performs well #92
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @nout 1 Feb 2022
Nice! "desirables" should be rewarded and "undesirables" should cost extra sats :)
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10 sats \ 3 replies \ @cointastical 1 Feb 2022
Reward early upvoters of content that performs well
https://github.com/stackernews/stacker.news/issues/92
Get out of my head!!!
Incidentally, I spent a few hours thinking about upvoting as speculation on popularity for Witcoin, back in 2011. After some brief discussion, we all concluded it was simply too easily gamed, and you'ld end up with low quality posts rising simply because the incentive is not on the quality of a post, but in getting an unexpected post to rise to the top.
As Munger said, Show me the incentive, and I will show you the outcome.
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6 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b 1 Feb 2022
I agree. Every incentive change might break the game entirely and needs to be well considered. Better to be conservative with this stuff.
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1000 sats \ 1 reply \ @cointastical 2 Feb 2022
A few things Witcoin did that are relevant here.. based on my recollection (from over a decade ago).
With Witcoin, all fee revenues were split. The "house" (Witcoin service) got like 10% or something like that, then some percent went to their charitable foundation fund (like 2% or maybe 5%, I forget) and the rest to the contributors.
Those who created Posts (OP) got revenues from the upvotes for their post as well as from the comment replies.
Top level comments got revenues from upvotes for their comment and from those comment replies below. But the revenues for these get split, like 80 / 20 of what is left after the cut for the house and charity, commenter gets 80% and then 20% to the parent (OP), "upstream" or something it got referred to as (since "upline" / "downline" are scammy MLM terms that nobody wanted to use).
So lets say a commenter got a $0.10 upvote. House gets $0.01 (10%), charity $0.002 (2%), commenter gets $0.0704 (70.4%), and upstream (OP) gets $0.0176 (17.6%).
Second level comments got revenues from upvotes and the comment replies below them, same 80/20 split, 80% for 2nd level commenter and 20% to those above. So a $0.10 upvote for this 2nd level commenter ends up: House $0.01 (10%), charity $0.002 (2%), 2nd level commmenter $0.0704 (70.4%), upstream gets split top level commenter $0.01408 (14.08%) and OP $0.00352 (3.52%).
Third level, ... fourth level, results in, of course, less and less earned by OP, as a percent of revenue, for each increase in level of reply.
This made it less costly then for someone to comment. Sure, the fee to reply might have been $0.10, but you might earn $0.05 combined from upvotes and revshare from those replying below. You could even earn a LOT more (percentage-wise) than you paid. You could pay $0.10 to comment, and earn let's say $0.25 in revenue (profiting $0.15, or 150% ROI) for your effort for your reply. This had the effect (sometimes) providing value by composing a fantastic reply.
Think of certain high quality answers you might find on Stack Exchange, Quora, or Reddit -- not often, but sometimes wow, fantastic work! That's the type of stuff some people were putting on Witcoin, because they were earning some decent bitcoin for a really good comment. A big difference, however, was that in early 2011, the only way for a lot of people to obtain bitcoin was to try to earn it -- they didn't have access to Mt. Gox (e.g., no fiat method that worked for deposit), and Mt. Gox was about the only exchange at the time. So some smart cookie putting an hour into composing a decent answer to someone's question in the Bitcoin Q&A category was not unheard of.
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5 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 2 Feb 2022
I prefer simple, straightforward kinds of rewards for average users - you get all your tips and SN gets the sybil fees. It's kind of what you expect and I like that. We've considered ideas like giving parents of comments the sybil fee, but I'm not sure it pays for the cognitive load.
We might have more complicated splits with sub mods, but they have complicated roles and it makes more sense.
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