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I enjoy Jonathan Pageau's perspectives from time to time. He is big on myth and symbolic signs in culture and history. I find this stuff fascinating as well. I watched this video last week, and based on the title, I was thinking... hmm, I wonder if it is a review of Return of the Strong Gods. It wasn't, but it really flows with the thesis of that book. You should read it if you haven't, and before you do, go check out @SimpleStacker's review of it.
Pageau starts the video by talking about the concept of "watching the clown." He uses Ye as the clown. Ye has been a leading indicator in the past when he publicly claimed he was a Christian and began making music and holding church services. Now he's going "off the rails" seemingly with his Hitler songs and art. Clearly, the stigma of Hitler will not last forever. It's hard for us to realize this. At least for someone of my age, but Pageau points out that eventually, the villains of history become less of a stand-in for Satan and more of a purely historical figure. He mentions Alexander the Great as a man who did incredibly evil things, but today we just read about him in school and don't really think about it too much. One day, that will be the way Hitler is viewed. Sure, evil, but the power of using him as the mythical Satan will wane.
The most interesting point I took away from this video, though, was that the post-war consensus was built on a dark secret. Now, it's not a secret to me, but at some point, it was. And this secret is a deep flaw in the current state of the West that keeps affecting us in negative ways. The secret is that in order to defeat Hitler and the Nazis, the West allied itself with the Soviets. Stalin. An incredibly evil man and an ideology that has led to the death and suffering of more humans than the Nazis. This is just a fact, but it's so dark that we don't talk about it.
For many years as I began to study Communism and the Soviet Union I began to question why on earth did the allies align themselves with Stalin. Obviously it was for stratigic reasons. I get it. But the fact that this topic is not really discussed in our culture has had a dark effect. Now, I'm not interested in figuring out if Stalin was more evil than Hitler or if Fascism is worse that Communism. I think this misses the point. The point is that today if soneone has Nazi symbols it is very likely not gonna go well for them but Communist symbols are usually just fine. We see the ideas of Socialism discussed openly without concern. Its popular even. Fascism on the other hand is always (until recently) masked at best.
Today we are seeing more and more people openly talk about this reality, and it is a signal that the WW2 consensus is breaking. As people age out and our collective memory fades, this lie will become more visible because the mythical view of Hitler will fade. This will allow people to be more objective about viewing the decisions of the past. I don't recall the book discussing this directly, but it is an interesting connection for sure.
I recommend watching The World War II Consensus is Breaking Down by Jonathan Pageau.
Wow, the way you talk about the dark alliance with Stalin is really poetic. Like, it seems to me you could write a grand fantasy tale about that. And it's so true, the repercussions of allowing Stalin to take a foothold are still being felt to this day... that decision to ally with dark forces (the Communists) to defeat another dark force (the Nazis) was incredibly fateful and has charted the course of history for almost a century
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Some of this came up not that long ago in a thread...
We allied with Stalin not to defeat Hitler, but to keep the eurasian landmass divided.
Stalin lives rent free in the policy of today. The atomic bomb wasn't used to beat Japan, but to deter Stalin from moving into the Pacific.
The post WW2 order is breaking down for sure, but many of the reasons it exists in the first place are misunderstood. What the post WW3 order looks like is uncertain, most don't know it's already being fought, but if you project fears over Stalin onto China, things start to rhyme quite a bit.
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The fear of the USSR wasn't really a fear of the left-ideology but rather fear of their power. Clearly many of the most ardent anti-Soviets were from the left. Many of the early leaders of the Conservative movement come from the left. Its why they aren't really opposed to socialism, they just have a different idea about the degree of free-markets and state control. They love central planning as long as they are doing it.
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Yea turns out things never change, the fake news today is just a perpetuation the false narratives of yesterday, and the history books written about them
The coalition instinct is at the end of the day what makes this all repetition
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Thanks for this and tagging that thread. I’m having to re-think topics and unlearn so much these days!
Any book recommendations would be appreciated.
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Yeah, I didn't wanna write a book so I didn't mention that. When I wrote that I was projecting the reasoning you will hear if you ask a prof that question.
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FWIW, I'm not as interested in whether this is a good or bad thing but rather as it as an inevitability. As I've written before. A culture built on lies will crumble eventually and the more I think about the post war world order the more lies I see. We can see the cracks forming.
The worst takes on this are the ones that blame Trump or someone like Biden or Obama. In my view these guys are just players. I'm not even sure they are aware of what is going on as far as this level of thinking. Not that I think I'm on another level but rather that they are too close to it all.
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Is not the dark secret that is not discussed that the wests imperialism has for the last 500 years at least been backed by Jewish bankers. Both Hitler and Stalin eschewed the Jews usury and secretive manipulation and sought to free their people from it...just as Bitcoin does, But no doubt Libertarians here will be too afraid to discuss this dark truth behind US global hegemony.
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I forgot to mention something else Pageau says that I agree with. I think he's right in stating many people think of Hitler as worse than Satan. He wasn't. No one is. Its just that Satan is so evil that we seek to find a human we can put into that role and Hitler was that human for our society since WW2.
I don't know who will be the new stand in. I don't think its Trump or Putin. Not because they are good men but because it won't work. The person has to be almost universally hated and neither are close to that. Putin is much closer than Trump but I suspect we will have a transition period where there will not be a good mythical evil man.
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