It does do harm to my battery :)

I did, but thanks for reminding me to turn it back off now.

On Android would it be possible for the node to turn into persistent node automatically until the invoice is settled? That would greatly reduce the problem. And also why does turning persistent mode require a restart?

Also my channel got force closed by Olympus when I had not tried to send anything. I just periodically opened it to receive zaps that suddenly started coming in from another thread. Are there any typical situations this may occur?

Here's a wrapped invoice if you want to give me money :)

lnbc40n1p50jd86pp5mr3a8jnevcg2dm8w9kxtdcau3mykqfrzaz64l5vg785tukr8sp6sdqqcqzrcxqr8qlsp5uslhfarm3gxwdj9xprhhx2xvvx8qut8mqxpve82g34jcqcy83j7s9qxpqysgqxddelpjwadyh4acg6my4z9ljhsxjwa02y87j2d5rq78pjjhjfgz58w8tjdcsk50wxn8k4j8c2uq6ner4ew8xja2s86e0t5ch3rywyesptnkvwf

Well... Then it still doesn't work. I have channels with liquidity to olympus (only one because the other was nonconsensually closed by them) and blocktank. I am not sure if this makes any difference.

And I am using zeus mobile, currently set to persistent for the test.

I had trouble once upon a time with blinded paths working. Let's see if this is still the case. Can somebody pay this invoice to me:

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

No problem... I struggle to write all the information well enough from my phone. I need a keyboard...

Just a moment... Did you get force closed when you were paying a zaplocker user?Because my situation is the reverse (i was the receiver).

WTF is this response to a post where I am actually agreeing with you? I am trying to understand why my channel got force closed even if I can't have my full attention to this problem at the moment.

Yes, Olympus. Well, first I was online soon enough. Second, if i am offline they won't have a pending channel state change with me, that's why I think they can safely cancel. But even if I am misunderstanding something here, first point stands.

BTW I didn't know this is called zaplocker, but I remember reading how it works on zeus site i think some time ago.

Yes, not my node.

Yes, their node.

I think Zeus uses some different mechanism where they hold the invoice in their nodes. I do need to claim them but I did claim them in less then an hour, so this shouldn't be the problem. Also I think the way it works is that zeus will cancel the payment themselves if the mobile node doesn't come online within a specified time, so no force close is needed.

My lease should have expired after 5 months, so this is not the problem.

I don't know if my zeus was in bad case. It hasn't crashed or anything like that so if this is the case it is a serious bug on Zeus's side.

I haven't tried paying hodl invoices or any invoices. I did receive some sats from Stacker news with the Zeus built in functionality and the sats were received without a problem (this was earlier today).

My connection is very good right now (and this shouldn't cause such problems if coded by good developers anyway).

I can't find anything in the logs. I think the logs don't keep everything so I may have missed the relevant lines.

I will read the materials you provided later, but this is unexpected and considering I have paid money for this channel, (6 month channels are not cheap), i would advise people to have it in mind and maybe not use this functionality for now.

I also had a force close from megalith LSP, but I expected to not have problems with Zeus own infrastructure. The megalith LSP channel didn't allow me to send anything, no matter the fee, which was quite strange. But now I think Zeus wallet itself has serious problems...

LLMs have many problems, but I notice that when somebody says "LLMs suck, because they do that", I always find myself thinking "humans also do that". Maybe what we call "human" is actually an LLM, running on what we call "brain".

Hm... I won't comment the so called "empirical" sense, for the reason I stated. But I kind of think both of the theoretical issues that I stated were not addressed completely. I mean for example this thing I posted:

I am not sure whether it is common or not. I am just using logical deduction here.

I see quite a few actually (current, not historical), but I don't want to delude the discussion with concrete example. Concrete examples are usually complex, and different sides always interpret them in a way that supports their case.

I think that will depend on the size difference. A large conglomerate can get into a niche with many smaller players. It can operate a few years losing money on that particular thing. And even though it is sustaining more losses than the competitor, the competitor may be limited even by the smaller losses he is sustaining.

This would work in cases where there are low fixed costs. Unfortunately this is not always the case. Usually there is rent to pay, maintenance of machines, which is needed even if the machine is idle, also salaries of employees, especially where you can't quickly hire all the workforce at once should you want to resume the operations.

Speculators can't do that with services.