I wonder how long this can be sustained and how crazy the mania becomes, if these Runes make it to exchanges, there's plenty of exit liquidiity for etchers and minters to dump on retail and realise gains,

I think these big fees are VCs and they're happy to say oh minting poopoo coin cost x million dollars therefore thats the floor is X, and the price of token is now Y and then sell into the late comers, could see plenty of normies getting rekt, which is part of the cycle I suppose

One aspect I am interested in is how this affects miners, do miners factor this into their income calcs and go deploy over and above what they can manage when these fees disappear in a bear market? Last cycle plenty of miners missed the mark and got rekt, this additional fee incentive market could make that a lot worse

And email spammers, call spammers, social media bot spam don't pay a cost? 🤔🤔

Agreed, if something is obviously silly or makes no sense no one will do it, and if someon does, you take on the economic loss of your time, labour and any money you put in.

But if there is something that has promise, try it on the ass option, thats what an MVP is, and if the MVP can work out its kinks fine. Testnet is obviously one way to go, but if some feature matures to a point where people want to try using real money or want open testing the ass-chain does make sense as a testing ground

Builders don't always know where something goes and crowd sourcing ideas only happens when people can F around with something and find out

LOL can I use that right now?

.....where's the liquitiy for moving in and out? Where's my unilateral exit? How would people interact with one another if theres no wallets, and no network to send to, then I just have to go back to the basechain or hope someone has a swap to LN and trust them.

You're pulling out things with no active product for me to use or send others to use and presenting it to me as a solution, anyways I think i'm done here, but do let me know when theres something to try out, always happy to give alternatives a go

Lol I am asking you since you're the one bringing the topic up

No exchanges, no ETF, no multi-sig side chains, No fedimint since thats also custodian

Mercury, who is running your server? WHOOOO?

If you're going to critique fine, but if you don't offer up a solution whats the point of debating, then its just twitter like engagement farming

I would love a more robust option, but what? Trust mimimisation is a hard ass problem to solve, the base chain is evident of that

So what are people meant to use if they are priced out of the basechain?

Lol stop shilling liquid, whats the alternative...crickets!

Yes I get OP_VAULT wouldn't make sense on Liquid

I guess for ordinals, yes the block space and fee paid is the value prop, you could do your stupid mint/etch transaction on base and then move to the multi-sig where you go and trade, just so it reduces the need to always use block space for it

Retail who tend to get involved in this stuff are always looking for cheaper options, otherwise TRON, MATIC and other offshoots of EVMs wouldn't exist

Lol no one is forcing you to use it, there are options and people can make their own choices, you're using a custodial LN app right now, fedmint is just liquids model without a blockchain

Liquid isn't perfect by any means, dunk on it, don't use it, but propose a solution, because LN also isn't perfect either, very few are using it non-custodially in any case

I get that liquid has its issues, thats why I said if people don't like it, have your own chain and your own federation you're comfortable with using, I'm not against convenants, I think they will bring a lot of enhancements

But from my experience as someone who works in tech I've been in so many meetings where we are close to the project looking at data and think this feature or this change will work and then when its released customers don't give a scooby doo about it lol, we're all just making educated guesses

Hence having something out in the wild and seeing how it works should have some benefits, especially when trying to convince people of making a chance to bitcoin

Oh really? Lol I don't really pay attention to BCH to BSV, but do you really want to take currency risk to use a feature?

Point taken, whenever i read altcoin material its always some massively complex gigabrain solution, that disregards a lot of the trade offs. It can't be simple, that was the altcoin space for ages, now ironically simple meta data like BRC-20 are all the rage, its weird

Thats why i thought okay if having smart contracts and all that other jazz isn't all that important, a BTC side chain where you can slap your OP_CAT or whatever upgrades your community wants would surely have a market?

Call me crazy, but why don't people who argue for a certain upgrade just prove the use on Liquid or fork you own side chain with the feature and if the market is big enough for it people will use your chain and you earn fees

Make a Squidward side-chain move all your BRC-20 and Rune stuff there, have a good time, and everyone is happy

If you build it they will come right? Right?

It is working in a sense, definitely been part of the marketing, but I would argue the opinions of maxis don't really matter to the wider world, most people don't know this stuff is going on, they're just going to see tokens on an exchange read a headline or two and buy them and end up rugged

As for the Bitcoin is fragile I guess thats one angle, but if the chain is up and working and no one is doing it on other chains, and those that have tried on other chains have seen those chains go down, is it really an effective attack or a stress test?

If this was just people bidding up fees for transactions to bitcoin its the same thing, but the real attack to me is on the normie as always who will end up being the bag holder for this stuff

Sure people have freedoms to do what they want, doesn't mean what they do can't be called out for being disruptive, when a dudes changing lanes every minute on the high way he can do it, he thinks his getting ahead but his getting nothing and just causing an annoyance for more people than his getting

You can use tech as you like spam doesn't work if it didn't follow the rules, spam emails and calls aren't doing anything wrong on a protocol level, remove your spam filters and blockers, let them in

What innovation is there to speak of that hasn't been done before? Tokens have been around for ages, I think the etching/minting model is the veil they're trying to use to claim that there aren't premines to sucker people in, and to pretend that there isn't a central entity to sue when the pump and dump goes wrong, like no bro it was a community open mint yeah right

How many degens have that kind of money to spend per block? Ofcourse there are VCs involved looking for short time to liquidity on a grey market pump n dump

Runetards gotta get their mints first, and they're doing their part in smoothing out the pain of the slashing in block subsidy, so altruistic of them, we thank you for your support, i'm not that brave, i'm off to stack on liquid, let me know when this is done

My guess is the bag holders try to shill for liqudiity and hope that an exchange comes along and buys up some to make a market based on the popularity and then they dump into that, but other than that, I don't see how you get out and get your fees + a mark up back

Giving me major Luna/UST vibes

I think it smashes 500 sats, lol 1000 would be if they can get a market up where people can list and dump, and the sniping gets really bad, maybe that comes later this month

Lol when nerd miner only pool? LFG!

Sigh this is all so tiresome, I assume we had that quiet period because they ordinoobs were waiting to transition into runetards and because this is "new" the first blocks have to be spammed for the novelty, but my question is always what then? You minted your stuff you're all stake holders, who you selling to?

It's just a bunch of people shilling they "own" something hoping for someone to fall for this and they all waiting for any liquidity on an orderbook and then trying to get out? Is that really the game?

Lol they sure are doing their best to compensate miners for the loss in revenue, good on them