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A decade ago Nature, a scientific publisher, began tallying the contributions made by researchers at different institutions to papers published across a set of 145 respected journals. When the first such Nature Index was published in 2016, the Chinese Academy of Science (CAS) ranked first, but American and European institutions dominated the top ten. Harvard placed second, with Stanford and MIT fifth and sixth; the French National Centre for Scientific Research (CNRS) and the German Max Planck Society were third and fourth; Oxford and Cambridge took ninth and tenth (seventh and eighth place went, respectively, to the Helmholtz Association of German Research Centres and the University of Tokyo).
Gradually, however, the table has turned. In 2020 Tsinghua University, in Beijing, entered the top ten. By 2022 Oxford and Cambridge were out, replaced by two Chinese rivals. Come 2024 only three Western institutions remained in the top ten: Harvard, CNRS and the Max Planck Society. This year, Harvard ranks second and Max Planck ninth. Eight of the top ten are Chinese.
Will Harvard tumble in the next few years, too, with their recent funding shenanigans?
[...]
Yet the way the rankings are created plays to China’s strengths. The journals included in the index are chosen to be representative of top-tier research across the natural sciences, with the composition regularly tweaked to reflect the state of the field. A growing number of publications in chemistry and physical-science journals has led to their share increasing to just over half those used in the 2025 index. Papers from health and biological-science journals, however, which remain an area of Western dominance, account for only 20% of the index.
China’s research centres also tumble down the table when the studies under consideration are limited to those published in Nature and Science, the two journals widely regarded as the most prestigious. CAS is the only institution in that country near the top of that leaderboard, placing fourth.
What say you? Do these kinds of rankings matter?
I remember a few years back, the university I work at in Korea, claiming a top 10 position in the world... only for it to be based on a very specific criterion that would not allow many other universities to enter the ranking... yet the uni's PR department repeated this number at nauseum.
Anecdotally, most of my international collaborations with experimentalists involve at least a few people from China. And the Chinese fellow working in my lab currently is one of the most diligent and hard-working people I've met...
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One ranking for you, one for you, one for you... Just pick the one you like~~
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It's all a matter of taste... it always depends on who’s making the ranking and what criteria they’re using.
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122 sats \ 1 reply \ @Signal312 8h
I'm not in this world of scientific papers, but I thought it was pretty well established that China is completely juicing the stats, and bulk-publishing really low quality papers.
Not that other countries are probably that far behind them.
Anyway, that's what I've read, I can't remember where.
As to this comment -
With Fauci putting back trust in scientific research and its institutions back to the way it was in medieval times.
Yes, for sure. Certainly for me, in any case.
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I'm not in this world of scientific papers, but I thought it was pretty well established that China is completely juicing the stats, and bulk-publishing really low quality papers.
There is/was probably truth in that, but the "China is just copying superior foreign tech and science" narrative is long gone now. China does cutting-edge research and does publish plenty of high-impact papers.
This narrative helps some people cling to their feeling of historical superiority, but it'd be better to face reality and embrace the fact that a very well-funded machine is advancing some fields in science much more efficiently than other countries are currently able to.
(these are general statements, I have no idea about your personal beliefs, other than you like yourself some meat~~)
EDIT: There is plenty of bulk-publishing of low-quality research going on, for sure. But that does not negate the quality stuff they do.
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I don't know the answer to the question, but I think it's fairly plausible.
I also think the dominance of Western institutions in health and bioscience isn't necessarily a good thing, as I've been seeing more and more sociological crap in health journals. (And I say this as a social scientist...)
One thing to point out is that the best grad students doing most of the grunt work in labs has often been the Chinese... recent decoupling of US from China has probably impacted US research output in ways orthogonal to the Trump administration's funding shenanigans
That being said, gaming the system is exactly the kind of thing Chinese universities would be apt to do
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One thing to point out is that the best grad students doing most of the grunt work in labs has often been the Chinese...
Fully agree. And not just the routine stuff, also some of the most challenging tasks. Many labs will, in the short term at least, lose steam if they were to cut off access to Chinese fellows...
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby 6h
I'm not in academia, but from the outside, my perception is that such rankings are all about pr and don't necessarily reflect reality.
But it's not hard to imagine that many Western academic institutions have been bogged down for the last decade with concerns other than "doing the best research."
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Many rankings are very "Anglo-Saxon". Focus on very specific metrics as number of Nobel prizes the institute produced, number of Science and Nature papers, etc
Europe these days is pushing for much more open publishing models, away from the Elsevier and Springer power houses. This ideological choice probably affects their unis negatively in some lists.
Yes, very much PR.
But one can still extract interesting trends and see how the education landscape is evolving.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @xz 10h
I don't much much trust in Nature's independence since The Proximal Origins .. fiasco.
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Thanks for the reference. Does this article make justice to what you are alluding to?
Indeed, i still remember reading that initial article, strongly shaping my view about the fact it was unlikely to be lab made. It was comforting in a sense as i did not want China to become the scapegoat of it all.
I was pissed as i learnt that in the end it was very likely a lab escape from research funded by the US research agencies. With Fauci putting back trust in scientific research and its institutions back to the way it was in medieval times.
But yeah, i still want to believe not all editors or referees have an agenda when deciding what to publish. It's anyhow better than flat out rejecting anything coming from the sciences. Just need to be extra cautious and critical.
I don't give much credence to rankings. Some of my most meaningful research was done in badly ranked universities.
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