For BTC onboarding a brick & mortar business
211 sats \ 10 comments \ @criptopanas 15 Dec 2022 bitcoin
I just wanted to share some thoughts and doubts about onboarding or Orange pilling a new store on the street.
I know that the more efficient way to send SATS is on the lightning, but for a beginner do you think that is it easy to get their first SATS on the LN?
Is lightning network more adopted that on chain? What is the more used or downloaded BTC wallet? is it on chain or lightning?
What about the custodial issue? We can not expect that a beginner in Bitcoin will be able to set up a LN node the first day.
Is the business willing to hodl the SATS received as payment or want to exchanged for FIAT asap?
write
preview
related posts
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @om 15 Dec 2022
What about the custodial issue? We can not expect that a beginner in Bitcoin will be able to set up a LN node the first day.
Phoenix and Breez are mostly non-custodial. By "mostly" I mean that the parent company may only be able to steal your money during opening a new channel. However, I find that the risk that the company turns evil in exactly those 10 minutes when you receive your $5 payment is negligible. Also you need to open the wallet at least once per week to check for fraudulent channel closing. But again, the risk is negligible.
I know that the more efficient way to send SATS is on the lightning, but for a beginner do you think that is it easy to get their first SATS on the LN?
There's a channel opening fee (2 ksat in Breez, 3 ksat in Phoenix). If you orange pill a store, just add it to your bill.
IMO show them Breez. I dislike unencrypted backup to Google but it allows Breez to not ask the user to write down any words. Check out its Point of Sale mode, it's exactly for the merchants.
Is the business willing to hodl the SATS received as payment or want to exchanged for FIAT asap?
Depends on the business. But you should accept them either way. Rikki6ixx wrote a rant about doing otherwise: https://bitcoinitaliapodcast.it/missione-centro-america-2022/day-27-egoism
reply
0 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 15 Dec 2022
Ok, let me explain it to you in simple terms...
  1. Important aspect:
  • onchain is the final settlement, is the "central bank", is your vault, that you just save for bad times.
  • LN is the payment network, the one that flows all the time. Is your "commercial bank" and your daily spending pocket. It helps you pay fast for goods and services.
Both are using same sats, there's no token or shitcoin or any IOU involved. Any LN payment is actually a HTLC, an onchain transaction that only is not finally broadcast (settle) between 2 UTXOs. It is settle only when the channel is closed. That's why is better to keep a channel open as much as you can and transact through it as much as you can.
  1. I wrote several guides especially for merchants that want to start accepting BTC. There are many options, some easier, some harder or more complex. All depends how they want to do it and their own business profile. Here some examples:
And many more guides on my substack.
  1. The "orange pilling" process do not start with just installing a LN wallet and giving him some sats.
Noooo, there is a long process of learning curve. They MUST start by reading a lot and practicing the base of using a BTC wallet, securing it, restore it etc. On my substack also I put several lists of resources, that MUST be read, in order to start with Bitcoin:
And I can go on and on with more...
reply
0 sats \ 2 replies \ @criptopanas OP 15 Dec 2022
@DarthCoin, thanks for all the resources and documents you have created, I'll take a close look to all of the link you posted here.
I totally agreed with your first & second points, but no in the last one....
Of course, the more educated the user the better (and safer), but we can not expect that all the users has a full knowledge of the nitty gritty in order to use bitcoin...It's like for to be able to drive a car, you need to know how all the components of the engine works...
In my opinion, one of the barriers in order to get more people using (not only hodling) BTC is the technical part, its need to be simpler to explain and use for the average Joe.
reply
0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 15 Dec 2022
Bitcoin is changing the world in all aspects, including the way people learn new stuff. If new users will skip the knowledge base of Bitcoin and jump straight to use a dumb app that will hide everything from them in exchange for a "nice UX" that will make people even more DUMB.
That's why we are in this deep shit today: because people were get used to have dumb apps that do everything for them and they will never be not even curious how the things works behind the scenes.
I am not talking to know all the technical details about BTC and LN, but there is a limit of basic stuff that people MUST know.
Examples: people must know what is a UTXO, LN channel, HTLC, how fees works, channels reserves, broadcasting txs etc... I see many users that have no idea about what are these but they still complain. Their complaints are basically EXACTLY because they don't know how these basic things work and what they have to do in regards.
The learning curve is slow, I know, there's no rush in learning. Took me 10+ years to know many things about BTC and LN and I am still learning. Every fucking day I would not go to bed to sleep until I would not learn something new about BTC.
I am not joking... if we want to go forward with Bitcoin WE MUST LEARN HOW TO KNOW MORE STUFF. Who will ignore this, will be doomed to fail and die as a useless ignorant. That's why today we have so many scams, shitcoins and bullshit like that. Because people are fucking lazy and don't want to read and learn more. They just follow some bullshit "influencer" without even thinking.
ENOUGH WITH STUPIDITY IN THIS WORLD. People must start be smart and intelligent. And the only way to achieve that is by reading and learning new stuff EVERY FUCKING DAY.
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @om 15 Dec 2022
people must know what is a UTXO, LN channel, HTLC, how fees works, channels reserves, broadcasting txs etc...
This is exactly why people would use fedimint instead (or, God forbid, CBDC). I'm not even against fedimint that much but I think LN should do better in terms of addressing a dumb audience.
reply
0 sats \ 4 replies \ @nerd2ninja 15 Dec 2022
lightsats.com is good for teaching people how to use Bitcoin (LN specifically)
I honestly don't think its good to orange pill a store. I think it works best when you orange pill a community instead. I've been researching Galoy and how Bitcoin beach was successful for my orange pilling journey.
reply
0 sats \ 3 replies \ @criptopanas OP 15 Dec 2022
One of the issues with Communities, is to gather all the members at the same time... Lightsats is a good introduction, but is not the tool for a business to accept payment in BTC.
reply
0 sats \ 2 replies \ @nerd2ninja 15 Dec 2022
Lets think this through man. You on-board a business successfully, they get not customers paying with Bitcoin. They drop Bitcoin support
You onboard individuals in the community. Maybe even trade goods and services with each other. You get all these community members asking their local businesses if they're accepting Bitcoin. Its a different story.
reply
0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bitcoiner1 15 Dec 2022
Yes, you are 75%right, in my opinion you also need to have business accepting btc. There have to be some kind of adoption from the individuals and the local business.
reply
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nerd2ninja 15 Dec 2022
Its a horrible starting point is what I'm saying. Without businesses, you can trade among community members and even start businesses, without community members, but with businesses, you just get an ignored "btc accepted here" sign.
reply