0 sats \ 8 replies \ @BrandonNakamoto OP 5 Jan 2023 \ parent \ on: LNURL deposits coming to Muun Wallet soon! bitcoin
For the most part all lightning wallets are going to be custodial.
Only maxis with enough money to build a reliable lightning node with decent liquidity will have true on-chain and lightning self custody control of their sats.
IMO Muun is simply providing an easy way to move your self custodial sats (on chain) over to the lightning network.
Wallet or not, lightning is always going to be custodial so the difference (and risk) in using a dedicated lightning wallet over Muun is minimal.
Phoenix and breez operates a lightning node on your phone.
Those a custodial wallet for you?
To me if you hold the keys is non custodial, that means muun is non custodial, phoenix and breez either.
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For the most part all lightning wallets are going to be custodial.
And yet, I'm being told that Phoenix and Breez are somehow too complicated due to them being lightning network nodes in spite of the fact that I've easily gotten reddit users with their only experience of lightning being the reddit lntip bot using those wallets.
Some people like to call these "custodial" on the other hand because they don't require channel rebalancing, the on-chain is custodial (unless you force close the channels and back up from seed phrase in pheonix) and because they use LSPs.
Their needs to be a distinction because a "hosted wallet" and a "self hosted wallet". Pheonix and breez are self hosted wallets and yet "custodial" by some people's standards. Its been my standard to say a hosted wallet just means its custodial, means its an account, feel free to disagree with my view so that I better shape my own view.
Again, feel free to use muun this isn't what this is about, this is about using language that makes clear what these things are to people.
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Some people like to call these "custodial" on the other hand because they don't require channel rebalancing, the on-chain is custodial (unless you force close the channels and back up from seed phrase in pheonix) and because they use LSPs.
That interpretation of custodial doesn't apply to anything else. That'd be like claiming Electrum is custodial because it manages your keys for you.
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I'm with you. Just pointing out the different positions that I've seen people taking regarding these things. Particularly, people running straight LND are the one's calling what Phoenix and Breez do to be custodial.
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Sometimes people call Breez and Phoenix "semi-custodial" - because they can't make random payment on your behalf, but they can block you from making a payment.
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Any LN node you connect to can block you from making a payment. I'm most familiar with Phoenix. If Phoenix blocks your payment you can force close the channel and backup from the seed phrase.
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Agreed - so the question is whether that should be called self-custodial or not?
I guess one step better than Phoenix is to have your own node with multiple viable channels. Then you shouldn't get disrupted by single node blocking you.
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it is the same if you don't use your own node to broadcast your bitcoin onchain transactions.
Again, if you hold your keys, to me is a non-custodial wallet.
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