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1784 sats \ 32 comments \ @Scoresby 3h alter_native

Homework has always been a waste of time

There is a post going round on X where a guy complains that his kid got Chat to do all their homework and then the teacher used Chat to grade it. As silly as the situation is, I'm not interested in that.

@niftynei had a pretty great thought about this though:

The rest of her thread elaborates on the concept a little bit.

⬆️ I totally agree with this.

I was homeschooled and spent very little time doing actual homework. Now, I'm homeschooling my three kids and they are also spending very little time doing homework (about 1 hour a day).

But they are getting old enough to create useful things for the world. So, I've been spending time lately exploring how ideas about how they can use the many tools we have these days to do more than busywork.

Challenge: Make $100 online

As part of their school this fall, I've challenged each of them to make $100 online. I told them I'd play a supporting role and help however they need it, but I want to push them to lead the project.

So far, they have been stuck in a very small range of ideas. I have my own ideas about what they could do, but before I start making suggestions or trying to put some hints out there, I thought I'd solicit ideas from the rest of you all. Kids are aged 6, 8, and 10. They can all read and type fairly well. They've used Replit and have a rough idea of the concept of setting up a website. They also are familiar with the idea of getting paid for content.

Zaps for good ideas.

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102 sats \ 3 replies \ @SimpleStacker 2h

I like that challenge! Maybe I will try to get my kids to do it.

I have to tell you though, bro, one hour of homework a day is considered a lot these days, at least by california public school standards.

30 sats \ 2 replies \ @Scoresby OP 2h

Ah, yes, well this may also be my miscommunication; I am using homework interchangeably with school. So, I should have said "they are also spending very little time doing school (about 1 hour a day)."

102 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 2h

Ha, okay nvm then. My kids spend 6-7 hours in school a day plus homework.

We've considered home schooling, but my job feels too busy for that and my wife doesn't seem as interested in doing it.

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby OP 2h

It's not for everyone. We have a pretty good community of other homeschoolers around us, which helps a lot with socialization and confidence. Also, it helps that I grew up that way. My primary interest in homeschooling is that I feel that traditional schooling wastes kids' time.

408 sats \ 2 replies \ @guerratotal 2h

Here at home, we're working on this educational project. I mentioned this a while back. We're studying, and we have a big challenge ahead of us, which is language (we speak Spanish and live in Brazil).

For first words and things like that, in literacy classes, they always talk about, for example, creating postcards with all kinds of animals, objects, etc., and you teach them the sounds of those images.

The idea of letters also comes up: uppercase, lowercase, cursive, etc.

It's crazy to find those kinds of images, so I've even thought about making a compilation of those kinds of images, printing them, laminating them, and selling them online for that kind of audience.

With children in mind, you could do two things:

For example, have them search for images of many animals on the internet and do what I mentioned above: print them in small prints and laminate them, cut them out, package them, etc.
Find photos of animals and take them themselves, that is, draw them. This would add a PLUS, since it would be done by children FOR children. In that case, they would do it by hand, and then you scan it and follow the previous process.

And of course, in addition to all of that, the idea of the website with online payments, etc.

23 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 2h

These are some great ideas! We are native English speakers, but working on our Spanish. So my sons have had to make a bunch of flash cards for themselves. Great idea to make them for other people. And the idea of child artwork being on them does stand out (so much of what you find now is AI, and frankly it all looks too polished).

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @guerratotal 1h

I'm glad you liked the idea, it really is like that, most of the images now are pure AI, or if you find other images then they come with a watermark, putting together a kit for me is a fantastic idea, I've seriously thought about doing that business and selling it here, I'm also thinking about making art books, that is, 30 famous paintings from Italy, and you put 30 Italian paintings in a book, put it together in a pdf and print it, frame it by hand and send it by mail, it could be another idea, the book cover could be done by hand

102 sats \ 2 replies \ @Signal312 2h

I think overall having the kids earn money is a great idea. I'm not as keen about having them do it online. There's so much screen time in kid's lives nowadays, already. And - anything that could be done online, can also be done by someone that's not local (or often automated).

But getting the work via online marketplaces, though, that's probably by far the easiest.

My kids were both mother's helpers as a first job. Basically, they helped out with younger kids, while a parent is in the house, but busy. Also, nowadays, kids barely ever just play with other kids in the neighborhood, outside. I think that sometimes he got hired just for play time.

That's a REAL job - in that it's not something that adults purchase just to support the kid, or because the kid is cute.

34 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 2h

We've paid older kids to do the 'mother's helper' thing when ours were smaller. It is a great first job!

My kids don't do much screen time. We don't own a tv. They don't have phones. The computers they have access to are in communal spaces and they aren't allowed to use them just whenever they feel like it.

I'm really curious how effective a kid can be given new tools like LLMs. It's easier than ever to spin up a website and payment rails. At the same time, products are cheaper than they've ever been, too. My daughter was talking about printing ballet-themed stickers and selling them to her fellow dance students. I think that could be a great start.

I want to start them thinking now: What problem can I solve for people that they will pay for? and I'm hoping that it gets us seeing the world as an opportunity-rich field. Also I want to get them used to the idea that spending money is necessary to make money.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Signal312 34m

Interesting. I look forward to hearing what kind of neat ideas they come up with!

123 sats \ 5 replies \ @Natalia 3h

I'm not sure it's a good thing to let kids get into the digital world this early, since it's full of bad influences these days; what happens if young girls see those onlyfan making money online that way?

How about making something with their hands, then rewarding them 🤔

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @SevenOfNine 1h

Agreed. Instead of teaching them to become a little capitalist that time may be better had teaching them how to build something, how to solve puzzles, how to use a tool to solve that puzzle, etc. Or more generally, just give them that time to pursue their interests while outside the classroom. Nature, art, whatever it may be.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Scoresby OP 59m

but how are they supposed to make me money if they are "pursuing their interests"? (sorry, couldn't resist)

we don't have a classroom (homeschooling), so there is quite a lot of freedom in their day. This challenge is about affirming that children can produce useful things, too. And I'm hoping that they'll be able to learn this by making a product of some sort and convincing strangers to buy it.

102 sats \ 1 reply \ @SevenOfNine 52m

Their interests will develop into careers. Some more profitable than others. Forcing profit seeking behaviors and interests onto a child can rob them a bit of that valuable exploration phase potentially hindering the development of their own interests.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia 42m

agree, I think the better approach would be to develop hands-on skills from a young age, then learn digital skills when they are ready. Since hands-on skills require way more time and effort to learn compared to digital ones, it also teach kids to be patient and focus, building a good foundation for them to learn anything with the internet later on.

63 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby OP 3h

We do make some crafty things (potholders, beading, rubberband bracelets, greeting cards, etc...) and they have tried selling potted plants and stickers and coloring books that they made at various markets we've gone to. However, I'm hoping to push them into something that has to compete on its merits, rather than selling to a captive audience of parents who buy things because the kids are cute. Sometimes making crafts and then rewarding them feels like it's another version of homework. I want to do child labor.¹

The digital world is pretty awful, isn't it? I'm fairly careful to walk with them through the journey of spending time online, but I'm also aware that they are going to have to learn to live in the digital world. I have not found sheltering my kids to be a very helpful practice. But I plan on being very involved, so I don't expect them to be exposed to too much awfulness without context.

Here's how I'm thinking about this: in the US (maybe also most of the west) there's an idea that kids don't really do useful stuff as a part of their education. Learning is always denoted by the uselessness of the work (I wonder what Veblen would have to say about this...). But there's no reason kids can't embark on building a life of useful productivity right now. They have good ideas. They just need a bit of support to give it a shot. At the very least, I want them to get used to the idea of taking a risk and failing. There's very little risk in homework. ↩

125 sats \ 1 reply \ @deSign_r 2h

F AI and screens... How about a lemonade stand like the good old sunny days? Have you got lemons?

Have them do it together, collaborating, instead of competing. Reach 300 dollars and split...

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby OP 2h

The lemonade stand path is fun, and we've done a few things in real life like that, but there is this dynamic where kids may be more capable of useful work in the digital space than they are in the physical space. I really do want their end product to be more than a gimmick or toy (sure, adults buy lemonade from lemonade stands because they want something nice to drink -- but mostly it's just to be nice to kids). I want them to see if they can make something that other people are willing to pay for without knowing they are kids trying to make a buck.

102 sats \ 1 reply \ @3a42879d5f 1h

Games. This sort of thing can go viral when it's decently playable and advertised that it was made by a kid. I've seen a few of stories like that on HN.

Some ideas that come to mind.

Character dress-up game.
Choose your own adventure story game with hand-drawn pictures you can click on.
Platformer with bespoke art

Monetization can be pretty hard to integrate so I wouldn't suggest a freemium model right off the bat, but I think you can get pretty far and hit that $100 goal with just a goal progress bar and a plea.

There's also itch.io which is a great way to publish a game and ask for people to pay whatever they are willing to. Of course that's fiat only, but if you publish there and on your own website where you have a LN donation widget, that would be even better.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby OP 1h

The kids and I were working on a dungeon and dragon-esque choose your own adventure just to play ourselves. But I like adding in hand drawn pictures (they love drawing and we produce a HUGE amount of art. It'd be a cool element to include.

102 sats \ 2 replies \ @AG 1h

Smells business is roasting around here! Such great initiative, well done. I agree kids should be thought how to provide value to their environement.

Making a website is not a deal anymore, anyone can do it, what make the difference are the contents. more than focusing on the outcomes, they should focus on the idea itself.

Do they have a specific deadline?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 1h

Deadline is 31 December 2025.

Good point about content being what stands out online these days.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @AG 46m

let us know what they came up with and who is the winner! The ~AGORA is always hunting for business updates, especially during our Tuesday weekly appointment.

@remindme in 128 days

102 sats \ 0 replies \ @dot 3h

I like the way you guide the kids to get real-life experience. From my almost ten years of training, I have a few simple notes for you:

Show them first. This is very important, because we cannot teach kids something we don’t do ourselves.
Be with them in their first trial projects. Without a first experiment, the kids won’t feel excited.
Limit the topic. Sometimes kids don’t know what to choose. You can help them focus on one subject, and then let them do the rest.
Start with what is around you. Encourage the kids to observe and ask simple questions like: “If this were yours, what feels not right? Can we make it better?”

102 sats \ 1 reply \ @BeeRye 3h

Hmm, how interesting and I'm impressed with the idea and project. I see two possibilities for them to take the project:

Sell something online to people in an internet community. That could be a good that can be packaged for example.
Sell something locally via an online marketplace. That could be say selling lawn mowing service but setting up the booking, payment processing all via a website (or something far simpler like a web page with their email address to book and payment on delivery of good/service). They could then create a QR code, post signs around the neighborhood, advertise, etc.

That might not be what you are thinking or asking for but it's where my brain went :) Please keep us posted!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby OP 3h

Thanks for the ideas! They've talked about doing a garbage can washing service and the idea of doing booking and payment flows online would certainly fit the bill! I hadn't been thinking about mixing real-world and digital world like that.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 2h

What do they like doing?

More and more, I think people should start there and see if there’s a path to making a living off of it.

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 1h

They are young enough that the only way this works is probably if it's something they enjoy doing. So we are focused on that. But a little part of me is hopeful that they'll catch an entrepreneurial bug from all this.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia 1h

entrepreneurial bug

My mum managed to do that, she basically just put me with her while she was running her business and let me learn with my eyes, then I ended up helping out bit by bit as I was growing up.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Kael_Yurei 2h

This is a fantastic challenge for your kids to turn their skills into real value at such a young age! They can use simple design tools to create digital art, such as cute animal pictures, emojis or motivational quotes, which they can turn into printable stickers, or write a short story, comic or guide about something they are interested in (e.g., “How to Build a Minecraft Castle” or “The Adventures of a Super Squirrel”) and sell it directly through a simple website they create on Replit.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby OP 1h

We haven't done anything creating guides. It's not a bad idea. Hard to monetize though, but I suppose we could look at something like Gumroad.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nitter 3h bot

https://xcancel.com/niftynei/status/1961085685546279263

Homework has always been a waste of time

⬆️ I totally agree with this.

Challenge: Make $100 online

Zaps for good ideas.

Footnotes