Is Capitalism Making Us Lonely? \ stacker news ~AskSN

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495 sats \ 30 comments \ @0xbitcoiner 2 Sep AskSN

One common criticism of capitalism is that it has sparked an epidemic of loneliness. This is often attributed to the individualistic nature of capitalism, and to the fact that markets have replaced a variety of more personal and communal connections with commercial activities. Karl Marx indeed expected that this trend will go as far as replacing even family relations and friendships with commercial interactions. How could that not make people more lonely?

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136 sats \ 16 replies \ @siggy47 2 Sep

This theory presupposes "we" are living in a capitalist economic system?

103 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 2 Sep

Seems like a really silly place to lay the blame.

We’ve been more capitalist and less lonely in the past.

If anything, loneliness seems positively correlated with the size of the state.

11 sats \ 14 replies \ @0xbitcoiner OP 2 Sep

That's a good question. I'd say no, but there's no doubt that capitalism is getting more and more present, even if you don't call it an economic system. For better or for worse!

47 sats \ 13 replies \ @Undisciplined 2 Sep

What do you mean by “capitalism”?

It’s not at all obvious to me that capitalism is becoming more present.

42 sats \ 11 replies \ @0xbitcoiner OP 2 Sep

I could be wrong, but to me, capitalism is a system where private companies control all the businesses and the main goal is just to make a buck.

I don't know a ton about what's going on in America, but over here in Europe—and especially in Portugal—the word privatization has been all over the place for the last few years. I don't have the numbers to show if we're more capitalist or not.

91 sats \ 1 reply \ @025738dda8 2 Sep

Capitalism requires a working property ownership. The problem in the most of the world, including Europe, is that you have a feeling of working property ownership. However, the reality is different. You cannot use your property as you wish.

Think of a private company providing health services. Everything you do must comply with the state rules. Those regulations break your property rights.

Think of accomodation rental. You must comply with the state rules. E.g. you cannot get rid of your tenant that repeatedly breaks your property. Where are your property rights?

Big companies are connected to the state. They use money from state. If state makes new rules, they consider the big ones not the small ones. Are big companies privately owned? Maybe. Are they privately controlled?

A trade has two sides: goods/services and money. Money (non-bitcoin) are state-controlled, dictated, not very capitalistic. Thus, roots of something like half of all transactions are anti-capitalistic.

Where is the capitalism there? There is some, but not that much.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner OP 2 Sep

Yeah, that’s right! Like, here in Portugal, the government can take your land or house in some situations, like if there’s a war or something.

72 sats \ 7 replies \ @siggy47 2 Sep

Is this the way capitalism is defined by most Europeans you know?

78 sats \ 6 replies \ @0xbitcoiner OP 2 Sep

Yeah, I think that's the gist of it. So what's capitalism to you?

119 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 2 Sep

For starters, the idea of a free market and respect for private property. That doesn't exist anywhere, so far as I can tell. So, I don't see how the author can even ask the question of whether capitalism leads to loneliness, because capitalism has never been tried anywhere, and particularly not in Europe. Government manages the economy.

114 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner OP 2 Sep

@Undisciplined broke it down for me, makes way more sense now. And yeah, I don’t think pure capitalism’s ever really been a thing. Might never be, because the government’s basically the biggest corporation anyway!

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36 sats \ 0 replies \ @Fenix 2 Sep

I agree. we had just small spasms, an emulation of capitalism since it is mostly unfree and property is granted by threat in case of non-payment of taxes. You are right in this approach, however, these spasms of people making voluntary exchanges locally with each other are capitalism in its essence.

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33 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 2 Sep

This clears up the disconnect.

There are two common uses of the term. One is what you’re describing, which includes nominally private enterprises with lots of state interference.

The other, which most of us tend to use, is private enterprise without state interference.

We usually use cronyism or corporatism for the current system.

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @0xbitcoiner OP 2 Sep

Makes more sense now, thanks!

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Fenix 2 Sep

Companies are capitalist regardless of whether they are private or public, these terms are just a way of saying which corporation is in charge.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 2 Sep

Sharia law is capitalism

do you feel better now

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 2 Sep

clearly communism is the answer

enough said

discussion is over

51 sats \ 0 replies \ @Fenix 2 Sep

The graph shows metrics that have nothing to do with capitalism. Capitalism has different definitions, and most of the ones you'll find right away are written by communists. At the core of capitalism is the voluntary exchange of goods and services, using currency as a means of exchange, nothing more. We've been doing this since we first understood ourselves as a species.

The graph and the problem you presented is nothing more than a reflection of the increase in the number of people with internet access.

https://ourworldindata.org/internet ↩

33 sats \ 1 reply \ @carter 2 Sep

what if people are more niche so we aren't compatible with randos from the bar? There are a lot more media sources and ideas now so the landscape of compatible types may have changed

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner OP 2 Sep

Totally agree, that’s for sure one of the reasons. Tech and COVID played a big part too.

26 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 2 Sep

Connection to capitalism seems dubious to me as others have said. I would suspect it is more likely a combination of the Internet / social media being a poor replacement for connection and disillusion with institutions like the church, community organizations, and civic groups.

We have become skeptical of institutions including private ones and it seems to me that most people have checked out. They don't know their neighbors a and no long feel the need to build community.

Another factor is individualistic culture. This is common in the west and replaced the more honor based cultures of the past. One would rarely leave your home town in the past. You would live near family. Today it is very common to move cross country and lose the ties to your roots. This makes it harder to have meaningful relationships.

One can argue that capitalism makes this easier but it is not a requirement. Wealth and prosperity make it possible really. Technology is likely the key issue for the you get but also I'd as the breaking down of the family with marriage being less common and more weak.

Capitalism is a popular whipping boy but if we stop and think about the alternatives it's just a scape goat to avoid the decay in ourselves and communities.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 2 Sep

There's also an argument that could be made that fiat money and the shifting incentive structure it creates coupled with other factors is relevant. Modern western societies have a very high desire to think short term vs. long term. This can directly be tied to the fiat money system.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 2 Sep

I wrote about this a while back.

#927021

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @flat24 2 Sep

I think that is a wrong approach ... and something taken with tweezers, since it can be manipulated and seen in different ways.

For example, with respect to "capitalism makes us more lonely"

I think that it is not capitalism that is wrestling that people tend to be more and more, such as not having a partner, being of the multicolored team 🌈 or simply not multiplying and not forming a family, all that is due to the adoptinating system in which we live and especially something that goes hand in hand with this is the eroding of purchasing power.

The capitalism that the US established in the past not only talked about making money, and dying only inside your bill of bills, No.

He talked about creating wealth, growing the family, growing personal and commercial connections, and thus drive towards progress, or simply to ensure your future existence and that of yours

Karl Marx.

And this character you mention. Sincerely I would never stop at consideration of some thought issued by that man. IMO

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @note_bene 2 Sep

I don't think the dramatic rise in online dating matches to a corresponding dramatic change in our economic system? If you consider Huxley's Brave New World, "hook up culture" was the dominant system (for the Alphas) even under a totalitarian state planned economy.

In fact, if you look at Marx's actual words on the subject below, Capitalism is actually playing a leveling role in dating: that you can supplement your personal deficiencies with your income, something which will be removed under socialism:

Assume man to be man and his relationship to the world to be a human one: then you can exchange love only for love, trust for trust, etc. If you want to enjoy art, you must be an artistically cultivated person; if you want to exercise influence over other people, you must be a person with a stimulating and encouraging effect on other people. Every one of your relations to man and to nature must be a specific expression, corresponding to the object of your will, of your real individual life. If you love without evoking love in return – that is, if your loving as loving does not produce reciprocal love; if through a living expression of yourself as a loving person you do not make yourself a beloved one, then your love is impotent – a misfortune.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Ge 2 Sep

It's not capitalism I believe it's the morals that bleed down from our keynesian bars 6 system look how John Keynes died crazy lonely broke... and we run that same system lol

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @2053456d48 3 Sep

I think relationship between loneliness and capitalism is very true in nature.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Maximux 2 Sep

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner OP 2 Sep

Is North Korea communist? I agree, people need to go through tough experiences to really appreciate what we have.

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