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100 sats \ 7 replies \ @kepford 12h \ on: Saying 1 btc = 1 btc when fiat price goes down is stupidity/cope bitcoin
I agree with Booth. If you are pricing btc in dollars you don't get bitcoin.
Many miss the point. Yeah, saying 1 btc = 1 btc can be cope. But the phrase isn't cope. I can be used as cope though.
Here's another example of something I say that more clearly explains why this isn't cope. When the fiat exchange rate price of bitcoin goes down I and many others say "sats are on sale". Or bitcoin is "on sale".
Why? Because the current price of bitcoin in dollars is just a reflection of what the market, many ignorant and some very dumb traders do with their money. In the short term the market can be VERY dumb. In the long term it is not.
We are in what could be called the discovery phase of bitcoin. Its nothing special to bitcoin. Think of bitcoin as a discovery that has value, but the market hasn't really figured it out yet. All you need to do is really study bitcoin for a few months and then listen to people in the financial press talk about it. They don't get it. If they don't get it, do you think the average Joe buying it on Coinbase gets it? Nah.
Do they get fiat? Not really. Most people do not get that fiat has no bottom. They don't get the flaws in the system. The market price of fiat is going down over time. Most people do not realize how much purchasing power it has lost in the last 100 years let alone why. They think inflation is the CPI.
So when the price dips or crashes I'm not surprised. I'm delighted. People are selling bitcoin. More for me.
Another analogy I like to use on my friends that have bought and sold. Regretted it and then repeated a few years later. I tell them this. Imagine you are friends with a guy who has a great invention. You understand it well. You know it has utility, it is gonna take off, but its gonna take time. Maybe you are even knowledgeable in the field and understand it better than most people will. So you invest. You buy in. You're a believer because you know. Are you gonna be swayed by a stock price crash? I would hope not.
This is why I don't agree with saying 1 btc = 1 btc is cope. Sure, like any saying, it could be used that way. I know there are plenty of bitcoiners that have very short vision. They wanna get "rich". They think in fiat terms. I'm gonna sell my bitcoin and something. Hey, whatever they wanna do. But if you get bitcoin... you know you have a best money we have ever seen and you aren't looking at the fiat price everyday. That's not the goal post. Sure, its one factor but when you realize where we are in the discovery phase of this new money you realize we have to zoom out and see the trends. Not the day to day price. The truth is... no one knows the potential value of bitcoin. But many of us think we are getting cheap sats even now.
Perhaps some of this has to do with where someone is in their life. You may be in the phase of your life where you earn fiat and therefore can view a price drop from 69k to 20k as "sats on sale".
Someone else may be in the phase of life (like myself) where they are retired and have the vast majority of their networth in bitcoin. I haven't earned a single fiat dollars in years. So when bitcoin drops 50%, that means I can afford (for that moment in time which may last days, weeks, months or years) 50% less cars or groceries or whatever.
You're right that no one knows the potential value of bitcoin. But we do know the current value that the market has decided on. That is roughly $110,000 USD today. We denominate it in USD (or another fiat) because that is translatable to a real world good that we as humans need/want.
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Perhaps some of this has to do with where someone is in their life. You may be in the phase of your life where you earn fiat and therefore can view a price drop from 69k to 20k as "sats on sale".
Indeed this is true. It sounds like you are my senior and with that in mind I thought I would share something that you may already be aware of. There are MANY bitcoiners online that talk big games. They seem really immature and they are full of a lot of bravado. They often have massive logical holes in their "arguments". Some of this is age, some of this is the mediums promoting this type of personality. Personally I don't really consider them representative of a significant number of actual people. Few people are authentic online. Many are trolls for the fun of it. They repeat bromides that while are true have become distorted. They repeat things they do not understand.
In the end... they don't matter. What matters is your vision for your life. How does bitcoin figure into that. How can it help you achieve that. We are in the price discovery phase of bitcoin. I doubt it will become the medium of exchange in your lifetime. It might in mine. I'm not counting on it though. So, this is what directs many of my decisions. I'm not expecting to get rich. But, I am expecting my sons to do so if I have taught them well.
Do with that what you will.
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Yeah, that makes sense. Many popular phases in bitcoin are lost in translation. Time preference is just that. A preference and that can and should be dependent on your phase in life and the life you want to live. I think the phrase 1 btc = 1 btc is a reaction to the trader bros that only think about going to the moon.
I don't think we disagree on the merit of market price. I will say most of the people I know that are obsessed with the price today are no where near your stage of life and also younger than myself. The also don't self custody and can't explain much about bitcoin beyond price. So... for me Jeff's statement rings true. Not sure if you've ever listened to him expound on this stuff. He's a sharp guy.
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I wrote about this a while back too #179556. A lot of bitcoiners have high time preference. They don't wanna admit this but I see it in their attitudes. They hold bitcoin so they can sell it later and buy crap. If they really valued it highly they'd realize most of the crap you can buy is gonna fall apart and lose value. They aren't thinking generationally. Bitcoin is little more than a stock to them.
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Bitcoin is money. A really good money. Perhaps the best money.
But a human does not require money of any form to live their short lifespan on earth. They need food, water, shelter, etc. The money is just a means to obtain the things we really need either now or in the future.
That is why how many cars, bananas or homes you can buy with a bitcoin is vitally important. Every rational holder of bitcoin would want to be able to exchange that bitcoin (now or in the future, for yourself or your heirs) for more goods/services, not less.
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Another economic factor people miss that is relevant here is that value is subjective. Market prices are simply a collection of the many subjective values people show for a thing.
The market price is the market's price. Its not my price. Yeah... my price means little to someone else that wants to buy my bitcoin. But many people don't value bitcoin on its own terms and their understanding. They simply go with the market. Its really kinda absurd. Contrast this with something like your house. Many people do not agree with the current market price of their home. This means they don't sell it. The hold it. Is that subjective? Yeah. And that's the point.
There's two sides. What I value and what the market values. If I need to sell something then I have to accept the market value. We have massive ignorance about how the price system works and how markets work. We all should be taught this stuff in school but we aren't. We are taught stupid Keynesian economics and infected with socialist views of money and value.
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