According to organizers, approximately 50,000 people demonstrated in Milan, where “masked demonstrators threw bottles and stones at police officers, smashed the windows of the Milan train station, and set off smoke bombs.”
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36 sats \ 4 replies \ @SimpleStacker 24 Sep
The counterfactual I always go through in my mind is, "What if Israel had shown restraint in its response after Oct. 7, and worked to curry diplomatic sympathy instead of immediately going to massive retaliation?"
80%, I think this would have worked out better for Israel, both in terms of their international standing and in terms of their long term security.
But 20% I feel like there are enough true anti-semites and radical leftists who will always side with the Palestinians no matter what, that it wouldn't have worked anyway.
Still, I think the first hypothesis is likely more correct... I often have to remind myself that moderates are still the silent majority.
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30 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 OP 24 Sep
I don't think that is in Bibi's nature, but even if he tried that, it would have been difficult from a domestic politics issue. From what I see now most Israelis are happy with the response, and international standing is secondary.
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100 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 24 Sep
My perspective may be slanted because the only israelis I know are academics that I've met through work. Most of them are extremely unhappy with Netanyahu... one of them even said his son is likely going to jail for refusing to serve in the IDF over the war in Gaza.
But, yes, it's very likely that bibi's short-term political concerns outweigh any international considerations, or even any long-term strategic considerations.
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60 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 24 Sep
What drives me nuts when it comes to people I know that talk about Israel A LOT is how they act like Israel is united in their support for Bibi. The guy has always been divisive figure. Honestly, I wonder if the attacks on Israel basically created a similar thing to what we had in the US after 911. Where people were radicalized and pushed to support things they would never do otherwise. Anger was high in the US and I remember feeling it myself. I remember voting for Bush and being in support of it all. Later I remember realizing I allowed anger to cloud my thinking and how I fell into group think. I get the sense this pattern is not lost on Bibi and I would not be shocked to find out that he's capitalizing on it and maybe even allowed the events to occur. Nevertheless, he is not behaving like a civilized leader and if any other nation were doing these things the US would be critical...
What am I saying? The US has long supported terrible dictators for our own interests. The US has no credibility either.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 24 Sep
- There is indeed a number of people that hate Jews. No clue what the number is.
- There are people that have reasons to hate the Israeli state for taking their land(in their view)
- There are people that do support the existence of Israel as a state(this is not the same as supporting the lives of Jews) but do not approve of the actions of Israel with their Palestinian neighbors.
- There are people that are neutral on Israel as a state but also see evidence of the current government and its leader stoking this who conflict up for decades to gain justification for their current actions. The current leader has long been accused of supporting Hamas over the PLA as a strategic move to gain support for taking the rest of Israels historic land(their view)
- There are people that believe this is fulfillment of Biblical prophesy of Israel taking back its land and rebuilding the temple (gross oversimplification).
- There are people that simply view the Hamas violent acts as a justification for actions.
There are probably MANY more perspectives. Many of the views I listed over-lap each other with other views. Its incredibly complex and honestly VERY few people are well informed on all the history prior to WW2. Myself included. I know enough to know I don't know enough.
I don't think most people talking about this conflict are acting in good faith. They seem to always have low information and little interest in learning or seeking a common solution. Sound familiar?
My personal views are that Israel's government is evil. Possibly worse than our own. The current leader sounds like he is trying to stay in power in order to avoid prosecution. I do believe what Ron Paul said many years ago in Congress. That Netanyahu's party supported and helped fund Hamas as a more radical opponent that they could more easily demonize and use as a justification to take out. The PLO, while itself not a group I support was more moderate. This tactic is one the US has used as well. Hamas is terrible. What I've seen the Israeli government do in response is terrible. I want no part of either side of this conflict. It really feels like most people are just being manipulated on this topic. Its hard for me to take people seriously that take a side. Obviously the Palestinians are the victims here. Maybe they should have done different things politically but I can't support what Israel is doing. Nor can I justify what Hamas did.
And I have a hard time believing that Hamas was able to do those attacks in a nation we always hear has such incredible security. It smells bad. Really bad. And what we see now done by Bibi makes me even more suspicious.
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36 sats \ 5 replies \ @grayruby 24 Sep
Is this because Italy placed conditions on recognizing Palestine?
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40 sats \ 4 replies \ @siggy47 OP 24 Sep
I don't believe Italy has recognized Palestine.
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36 sats \ 3 replies \ @grayruby 24 Sep
They said they would but only if the remaining hostages were freed and Hamas was out of government.
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60 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker 24 Sep
Why are those unacceptable conditions?
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30 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 24 Sep
They aren't unacceptable to me but to protestors apparently they are.
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20 sats \ 0 replies \ @openyoureyes 25 Sep
Because they always can say: we are missing hostages.
They literally bombed everything and killed most of the hostages themself.
Hamas ist out of government...
Why not: when zionism is out of israel government?
So you want to bring democracy by forcing them to vote for someting else or just keep on killing them?
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36 sats \ 0 replies \ @orto 24 Sep
I wish they had done the same for Bosnia back then. Bosnia was right under their noses. They watched people being slaughtered. Then they judged those responsible. Now it's almost over, and everyone seems to have noticed. I think it's all fake. They are not honest. I say this by distinguishing the good people among them.
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36 sats \ 1 reply \ @Coinsreporter 24 Sep
This happens when you open your doors to everyone. Italy and most of other Europe is going through such things so very often, and they are being sponsored from outside Europe.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @openyoureyes 25 Sep
Maybe it is because they are supporting the wrong side.
If italy stops supporting israel there will be no violence.
I bet many violent protesters are born in italy.
But if italy is supporting a zionist apartheid regime that is killing zivilians in a massive genocide, it is the right and the duty of every citizen to fight this injustice. Some fight with words, others with stones.
But the zionist regime is actually dropping bombs on people who can only defend themselves with stones.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @openyoureyes 25 Sep
Remind me when we start supporting palestine with money and weapons and take the money away we are actually giving to support a zionist regime that is financing a genocide.
I bet bibi even bought the weapons for the hamas attack and pulled soldiers off the border at the day of attack.
The world will never forget and the jews will pay the price if they do not get rid of the extreme radical zionist leaders.
I posted a video that is very interesting if you want to understand the situation and the violence.
#1229696
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