The socialist housing plan for New York City \ stacker news ~econ

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The socialist housing plan for New York City www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KbGulTc4TY

695 sats \ 44 comments \ @SimpleStacker 21 Oct econ

IMO, I would accept this compromise solution:

Freeze the rent for existing rent stabilized apartments (since that's what the commies want, and there are too many of them to argue against)
Deregulate zoning and allow developers to build freely on property that they own without the neighbors getting to hold it up

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65 sats \ 24 replies \ @Undisciplined 21 Oct

I'd want some sort of legal guarantee that they can't just re-regulate those private properties, too.

In principle, though, I'm fine with compromises that involve increasing the maximum level of private property rights.

91 sats \ 23 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Oct

I want to make minarchism a popular term. I think it could catch on, since obviously capitalism (the word) isn't working for young people.

30 sats \ 5 replies \ @Undisciplined 21 Oct

It's been around for a long time. I think it's easier to sell young people on libertarianism, in general.

The first principles approach resonates best before people have formed a bunch of ad hoc rationalizations for all the government interventions.

42 sats \ 4 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Oct

I think the libertarian party has been around for too long in the US and thus the word libertarian has lots its power. Something new and edgy (especially the connection to "anarchism") may be attractive to some disaffected youth who'd otherwise look for solutions in communism

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined 21 Oct

Then don't pussyfoot around it. Just push real private property anarchism on the youth.

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Oct

too scary for the normies

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 21 Oct

The youth you should target will be ok with something provocative.

Normies are a waste of time. They'll just follow along once the people who matter are convinced.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 21 Oct

Indeed.

42 sats \ 16 replies \ @kepford 21 Oct

I fear our descendants will have to learn the hard way about how amazing capitalism actually is by losing it.

Its weird how something responsible for so much good can be denegrated when government education and entertainment demonize it for 50+ years.

42 sats \ 15 replies \ @Undisciplined 21 Oct

My hope is that we can learn the lesson vicariously by watching Europe go over the cliff.

42 sats \ 3 replies \ @kepford 21 Oct

Sounds like NYC will be a better example.

42 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Oct

If NYC collapses they'll just find something else to blame

47 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 21 Oct

Obviously they'll blame all the greedy capitalists who live there.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 21 Oct

Yeah... I do think you are right.

Its quite interesting to watch this character in NYC and how he obviously a demagogue telling people what they want to hear. Its a tough situation that was created by the very same ideas that this guy is pushing.

There's a fundamental flaw in humans in that we have a really hard time putting ourselves in the shoes of others. My dad never had wealth. He was born poor. Literally a cabin at home. His family was the poorest in the small town in Oklahoma. He never finished High School. But he worked hard and taught me to work and one thing he said to me that has stuck with me was that "you don't have to be rich to be greedy". He said, "Some of the greediest people I have ever met were poor".

We all want more for less. Its not just the business man. I want to be paid more. My boss wants to increase profits. We are all competing. We are all greedy to some extent. I'm not a Randian. I don't think greed is good. But I do think it is in every man.

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42 sats \ 10 replies \ @kepford 21 Oct

Hasn't worked yet. We saw the USSR.

76 sats \ 9 replies \ @kepford 21 Oct

Have my own theories about why that didn't work.

43 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 21 Oct

I think Europe is pretty entrenched in our minds as a peer culture. It might seem less like it's happening to some alien culture.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 21 Oct

True, as it should be. We have a lot to thank them for and we stopped teaching positively about Western Civilization when I was growing up. I'm still unlearning non-sense I was taught.

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0 sats \ 6 replies \ @Signal312 21 Oct

What are they?

76 sats \ 5 replies \ @kepford 21 Oct

The short version. The victors (US) didn't believe that socialism was the primary reason the Soviet Union failed. They believe it was the USA. They don't actually believe socialism is completely rotten.

I say this because I have seen very little actual mainstream discussion of the failures of socialism. It was mostly about the US spending them into the ground. Not the failures of central planning. Many in government are socialists they just don't admit it.

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121 sats \ 15 replies \ @redban 21 Oct

sounds like a good plan to me. fuck'em greedy nyc landlords

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Oct

Why don't you go build your own house to live in, or so that someone else can live in, rather than telling other people what to do?

133 sats \ 2 replies \ @redban 21 Oct

in my experience of 17 years dealing with landlords in nyc, i can tell you have no clue what you're talking about

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker OP 21 Oct

You didn't answer my question

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 21 Oct

Yes they did. You dont know what you are talking about. Fuck the rentseeking landlords.

0 sats \ 10 replies \ @kilianbuhn 21 Oct

communist

0 sats \ 9 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 21 Oct

Libertarian moron. Sometimes free markets don't work. Especially when it comes to housing.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @kilianbuhn 24 Oct

"Especially when it comes to <the most overregulated industry ever>"

coincidence?

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 24 Oct

In reality the fiat debt financing of property speculation was DEREGULATED under the neoliberal greed is good mantra which really kick started the modern crony capitalism we now suffer under. You perhaps were not born yet when this happened so maybe you are not aware of the changes that were made to the nature of fiat debt issuance that created the property price speculative frenzy that has been built since the 1980s. Read some history.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @kilianbuhn 24 Oct

lol

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 24 Oct

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @keele 21 Oct

Have you read The Road To Serfdom by Hayek? Anyone trying to convince me free markets aren't the best would have to make a compelling argument how Hayek is wrong. Because all I have ever seen is more central planning, more restrictions and more interventions and the outcome has been exactly as predicted by Hayek. Particularly hard resonates the point that people stop trying to improve their own lives by working and improving their skills and instead people become increasingly political.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 24 Oct

You will find such a compelling argument here-

#1261402

Looking forward to your response.

Silence???

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @keele 25 Oct

Silence???

StackerNews is for high quality conversation, not whatever low effort you're engaging in. I asked you if you've read Hayek and you ignored the question. I also raised the most central issue I see with ignoring the warnings from Hayek and you ignored that as well. I can't be bothered continuing this low effort conversation as it's not giving me or anyone else anything of value.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 25 Oct

As always you demand I respond to your references and terms but you completely ignore the facts and issues I raise. High quality reasoned debate indeed!/s You specifically asked for 'a compelling argument how Hayek is wrong' and I have responded to that challenge and directed you toward exactly such an argument- one located on this platform where can enjoy the full rights and privileges of an in context reply - but you have not responded to it. Low quality, hypocrit.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 21 Oct

Hayek is wrong- the truth is sometimes the role of governments crucial to the performance of a nations economy and prosperity.

How is the US military industrial combine going to fare without a supply of rare earths?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 21 Oct

Crony Capitalism has failed. The mixed economy is the only credible solution. Its too complicated for some to understand, but intervention is required in some markets.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Sandman 21 Oct

Capitalism isn't working for youth. Just wondering what generations coming will experience.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 21 Oct

CRONY capitalism is a disease that has infected the west since neoliberalism introduced it. The bankers took over nearly all western democracies. Ever since rents and house prices have escalated and productivity, infrastructure and manufacturing have steadily declined.

The mixed economy is ideal. Its hard for Libertarian extremists to understand but just look at Rare Earths and you might start to get it.

Free markets do NOT give the best results in some scenarios. In some scenarios government intervention gives the best result.