Blinded Paths is a game changer! 🤯 \ stacker news ~lightning

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1236 sats \ 45 comments \ @Car 20h lightning

I just got a demo of Blinded Paths and I am absolutely shocked this is not on by default??? What am I missing stackers???

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269 sats \ 16 replies \ @ek 19h

I am absolutely shocked this is not on by default??? What am I missing stackers???

Probably this here:

This scheme requires all the nodes in the blinded route and the sender to activate support for the feature. It needs a big enough share of the network to support it to provide meaningful privacy guarantees.

You're trading off reliability for privacy that apparently might still be questionable currently.

I think it's good that it's not on by default currently. If you know about it and know what you're doing, you can enable it. But most users don't know what they are doing.

306 sats \ 11 replies \ @ek 19h

36 sats \ 8 replies \ @Car OP 18h

i just saw it work? so what are you saying exactly that it doesn't work?

36 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 18h

ek is right, is working, but not always and it depends on how many peers are activating it. Same situation with AMP invoices (static invoices) in LND. Very few users knows about that.

36 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek 18h

Now watch how @Car won’t reply to you because what you said goes against his beliefs

91 sats \ 1 reply \ @Car OP 18h

lol na actually going to austin tech week right now with jim, but if it makes the top 5 will talk about it more on snl

genuinely was surprised by blinded paths but it sounds like everyone is bearish on it, maybe next time don't make posts like this in ~lightning ?

literally said, "What am I missing stackers???" to learn, can't have belief when your learning

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 18h

actually going to austin tech week right now with jim

Haha ok fair

but if it makes the top 5 will talk about it on snl

You can pick it as your post you want to discuss even if it doesn’t make the top 5, no?

it sounds like everyone is bearish on it

I’m not bearish on them

I’m just patient

TBH @Car, you need to consider nuances more, doesn’t seem like a strength of yours

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @j7hB75 11h

Insert cognitive dissonance meme?

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 18h

You saw something working once and now you think it's reliable?

I didn't say it doesn't work, I only quoted the specification that literally mentions it's trading off reliability for privacy and then I made a funny meme

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Car OP 18h

ok ek go back to using ecash

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 18h

lol

I don't think your reply was funny though

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 18h

Hahaha

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 19h

true meme

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 19h

But most users don't know what they are doing.

100%

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @justin_shocknet 19h

It's been in LND for awhile which is a majority of the network, the minor implementations have been the ones really pushing it for their Bolt12 nonsense... I don't think adoption is a huge blocker at this point.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 18h

It's been in LND for awhile which is a majority of the network

Are we talking about complete blinded paths support? Paying (except if there are multiple blinded paths), routing, receiving?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 18h

Complete with an asterisk maybe

It's fully functional afaik, that PR seems more like a reliability enhancement

100 sats \ 15 replies \ @BallLightning 18h

I had trouble once upon a time with blinded paths working. Let's see if this is still the case. Can somebody pay this invoice to me:

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

44 sats \ 13 replies \ @justin_shocknet 18h

failure no_route

100 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin 17h

probably forgot to put zeus in persistent mode

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @BallLightning 17h

I did, but thanks for reminding me to turn it back off now.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 17h

It doesn't do any harm, but good

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @BallLightning 17h

It does do harm to my battery :)

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 16h

not really. I made several test with and without. A chat app is consuming much more than a lnd service in background.

Compact your database quite often and you will see that is just fine.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @justin_shocknet 17h

He did #1262632

And a wrapped one from the same zeus worked, perhaps gossip bound?

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 17h

it worked for me some times ago making a test, but I used quite an old channel, I notice that new channels, especially private ones with a LSP tend to not be well "known" in the graph. But if you have an older one, that also had previously a lot of payments through it, it became easier to do these things and pathfinding works better. maybe a reset of the graph could help.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @BallLightning 18h

Well... Then it still doesn't work. I have channels with liquidity to olympus (only one because the other was nonconsensually closed by them) and blocktank. I am not sure if this makes any difference.

And I am using zeus mobile, currently set to persistent for the test.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @justin_shocknet 18h

gimme a non-blinded one for good measure

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @BallLightning 18h

Here's a wrapped invoice if you want to give me money :)

lnbc40n1p50jd86pp5mr3a8jnevcg2dm8w9kxtdcau3mykqfrzaz64l5vg785tukr8sp6sdqqcqzrcxqr8qlsp5uslhfarm3gxwdj9xprhhx2xvvx8qut8mqxpve82g34jcqcy83j7s9qxpqysgqxddelpjwadyh4acg6my4z9ljhsxjwa02y87j2d5rq78pjjhjfgz58w8tjdcsk50wxn8k4j8c2uq6ner4ew8xja2s86e0t5ch3rywyesptnkvwf

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @justin_shocknet 18h

that worked, slow though, that the dodgy zeuspay nonsense?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 18h

yes

still waiting for a reply from @evankaloudis in there btw

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 18h

Sad! I thought that was pulled down after the Mutiny debacle

Could be using CLINK offers instead for trustless lightning addresses, just sayin'

reply on another page

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car OP 18h

https://lightningdecoder.com/lnbc30n1p50jvnypp5lmyrznz22tk4c9nrqf99h8s8atwkh8kzu2hflwcrr4j6hjft62aqdqqxqrrss5juqqqq3xsqqqyf5qv0qqqqqqqqqqzycqqqqqppxy70sqqqqqh626gmmszr8dfw4gdxvntpnghd486hqj6ye6l8h2tl05m397ls8vps8z572egjajvd526h39mp77hc72qt47v2py5zxcxddlcnsx673zdlgu07u0gaf3f72vqye6z7slqc0dn8tx0qucr3f22ws8pexvp77xqg9nakhknt9d9jmpk2ct6g9ptl02jz44fpwdy24mdejsy5njj4xfqhwyczrvpdwx9s8as7ypa95r7gp7uufg623mtedkh5jss2uzwgvtsm2xsqc7cgg2g5gufdagu7lapntyz20wsm3tlnl8fdtu9ek4vgj7w8ecjk533njawwsv9c9waguvzqrudgnzc83k64xhkkgwmv6d8kxa3st7x6xn6a2kjm9pkl3c0y965qx003rytc8st58rcj57d6lrgxl3aharuc4se2dp43eydzn45zfv03g7df662er2qpmnvgzz67hexrycfaap5nmyw3va40t2zewrcjv45yau3695jmcvgwfv47jpqpnem2ewghmrxqcq22gc8aqw33xs65qk9d8y0ut3xzyjgq5jhqqqqq9cqqqqd6qstqqqqqqqqqqzycqqqqqqre3p9wqqqqqeasze2fmujujcwmr8kndsu7nlsqz4cnfrdsguv5prfegxmkpeelyps9gm3qwyxxcznqrgt8lyaur84ej6hw29hlzgx2dtsn2p3k9hrzyv8g6ajarzf4mygl5cuq7kc628dgspx065qjcakl2wnjm3809gkdrntc3tdf3099q0qyue6a9996pmpfgrk7n8zureptgke0u0ayklyusgyzxkkstlgtqpl30tzqkap73dp78k50376jqxy6xce89kw5m83c92kak2q7zcukr2xzaq7s34ddrj4dnl6ct2s8d0z0p8fz33ggtprthunhqh90yhfw74fpjv2wn37cqvfqg9nac56yuzxj48827v2jqpgzlqt5zkze7h2kvkvt4u2wj7sq2y9nn424dfrljex9jjqmjy7cqn07ze9nnj768tpccezssvxetdjs33s9q37aka30hdjd6e3fgma3tplcu6vr2m39yw86e0g8ntqgu8csngvwnu978jhkzdw9czm8rtz8d247xe6k3n0mptk3k3up70qteta5k2xuqtrc3g5jjqqqqqqqqqqqqqqgrqqqqqqqqqqzycqqqqqqsh2d6sqqqqqkhyldwfuavqyu26u77vs8w8e7gv5lzmv92e6xg53z7g2leewe34upsxxeszvr4wja7nwdv0duuhctspcc723z386hqkht5jayrpqlenevpg508w540dgn0nk0z6thg3d7tyrkxwgxhf6svlrqp53cp4l7s28tsd872kzf8lcx7naldck0w3qkvn3c9x498kfzuaqs4cqftgjv9fxhujvkfu9q7qd3lxnnw28vc2szkfxx5tr94nzqv8342fdmgx267kjvfjz2rjksrk3gms7rdwt0ldadw5g580yp8qvqxc8jehj4dcn2vk0wgctnnuxy6d8gv4nqd6a7rgzmuydfl7x2vlwqg3yvftmcrm5rakr4x3yqqtzlua299crdvsqulyj67f6q90lmq7xptz7pgh3kqknhs48umtehhqhguvtlam8uk69zm0hjd2rgj2rue0nr77w0uy9yaqsc3msrjq0ccz8wpreqa96exgqp9f8u97xmd9fqlkpyg4gn4svlgd8dtyrx94syswmnt0tf9tufyc2dhfwcgrg9p4yqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqpq9qgqjr3tjlyezsx5707lpumuq2t8xzca04hcexf76w5kj8wqcexa52a5tlzr9xxsdta9zc7nj4v59h2js545dt8pstkn8hmtqlyc868rp8spakyte6

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 19h

Slightly slower and less reliable, also the QR's are pretty much unscannable with a camera... so they needs to be wrapped in an offer meaning more CLINK adoption needed ;)

Only benefit for all those trade-offs is some privacy larping

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 19h

In Zeus

What am I missing stackers???

Is because some others are "selling" bullshit liquid instead of LN as being "private": #1262495

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SwapMarket 17h

Haha, yes I am the cause for blinded paths' slow adoption. In reality, only some receivers want them. The senders are private already, so they are just getting milked by the introduction points for no upside. The link you referenced is about acquiring BTC for fiat privately. Blinded paths can't help with that.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car OP 18h

ya in Zeus its an awesome feature!

0 sats \ 7 replies \ @openyoureyes 19h

1)Adoption: not all wallets support it. 2)payment failures: even if your wallet supports it, you have to add route hints in blinded paths that lead to longer pathfinding and more failures. 3)weak privacy: a payment can be unblinded by probing.

100 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin 19h

you have to add route hints in blinded paths

wrong. If you do that, there's no more "blinded" and will always fail. That's why also in Zeus when you activate blinded paths, route hints is automatically switching off. You use one or another.

not all wallets support it.

first is about LN implementations to add it, not wallets. Wallets are just interfaces.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @Car OP 10h

It works with the people I transact with so idk 🤷‍♂️

Darth do you have a guide on this? Or is it something that is too still early? I didn’t even know it existed before today, kinda shocked Lightning devs are not championing this stuff it’s really freaking cool.

100 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 6h

Many LN features are ignored by users. Another example of underrated feature is 0-conf channels (I posted about here) and AMP invouces. Also many still don't know how to use MPP.

What buffels me more is that many still don't know that private channels exist!

I didn't make a guude mentioning blinded paths because is still new and mostly depended on how LN implementations added first to be available in wallets.

I've test it quite a lot, with public and private nodes (I run both), it works nice indeed. The only thing to take in condideration:

not all nodes are supporting it, so if you encounter one in the path it could fail.
your LN graph must be well synced and updated. So for a private node that is not always online it depends a lot of the graph to find the right path.
don't try it with new channels. Use channels that have some history of payments.

210 sats \ 3 replies \ @Car OP 1h

Thanks for this! It sounds like we have some really cool privacy features on Lightning baked in. The future of having your own private Lightning node no one knows exists is coming true or at least I am barely starting to see it.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 59m

lightning network deniers will eat their shit

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 18m

Here is a note from the LN liquidity chad, that describe something related:

https://xcancel.com/alexbosworth/status/1981025222967857450

So let the (LN) haters hate it, but they will drink their soda warm and not cold in the middle of a hot summer.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car OP 26s

💯 agree with Alex!!!