The hippest spot it townThe hippest spot it town
I've been meaning to post about a really cool business I found on btcmap.org a little bit ago. It's a restaurant with great food, a hilarious theme, and a friendly, witty staff. They got on the map by lighting up their square terminal, but the owner turned out to be a real bitcoiner.
Now I'm glad I never did write that post, because I really want to write this post today, and I don't want to turn y'all off to this really cool spot. Also, in the event that I haven't doxed what city I currently live in yet, I'm going to try to preserve that a little longer.
Lightning Strikes, and not the bitcoin enabled kind!Lightning Strikes, and not the bitcoin enabled kind!
So last night, I was at the afformentioned spot. I bought a meal, paid in bitcoin, and joyfully ate it up in a hurry. I went back to the counter for a beer.[1] The guy rings me up at the Square terminal and I pull out my phone. The QR code isn't reading. After a moment it starts to get awkward. Then, with surgical precision, the clerk cancels the order right as the payment goes through. I get a nice green payment sent screen with all the trimmings: payment hash, preimagine, date and time, and a description with the merchant's name as a cherry on top.
Ruh-roh. I see the owner now standing behind the clerk eyeballing the scene. I lay my phone out on the counter because I know those funds are gone and I want to make sure they understand it to. They need to look in their system and see what happened, and they do. The owner is starting to become noticeably upset while the clerk just keeps saying it didn't go through. I'm say that my funds definitely left my wallet. There's no doubt of that. On there end, the transaction is still listed as voided and they also definitely don't have the payment.
A Midwest StandoffA Midwest Standoff
I've travelled enough to know that the stereotype of "nice" midwesterners is overblown. There are nice folk everywhere and jerks lurking everywhere too. That said, as a general rule, one is more likely to encounter the following account right where it took place than any of the other places I've ever been.
They know for certain that they don't have the money. They don't know if I'm trying to scam them. I know for certain that neither I nor they have the money. So, we both err on the side of deference...to the point of conflict. They don't want me to have a bad view of their business (not a snowball's chance in hell of that happening) and I don't want to sour their view of bitcoin. Things were already awkward. It actually kind of gets ugly. We'd be better off with a jerk in the mix.
I pay again win the fight!I pay again win the fight!
They concede reluctantly, and let me pay again. Apparently bitcoin had crashed during the argument, as my second payment was two sats more than the first! That said, this freak incident probably didn't hurt their view of bitcoin too much due to my savvy midwestern deference skills.[2] It wasn't bitcoin's fault after all. In fact, bitcoin was flexing one of it's greatest features: censorship resistance. There was no way for me to claw back the payment.
And therein lies the rub! The real failure here had to do with Square's infrastructure. Now, they're doing experimental things and this is a really freak situation. But the problem lies in the fact that my payment wasn't to the merchant. It was to Square! I've got the preimage to prove that the payment went through. They've got the big ol' hole in their Square ledger to show that it it didn't make it. I'd complain to square, but I wasn't their customer in this whole rigamarole. The merchant was, but I think both Square and myself are willing to go to great lengths to ween this merchant off of war tokens.
SOOOO...SOOOO...
I figured stacker news was a nice place to share this account. Square should probably have a better contingency for this type of situation. I know they got the money. If you're a Square employee and see this post, I'm happy to provide the preimage. I also know it wasn't malicious.
It just seems that somewhere somebody in Square hopefully should be seeing that a payment came in for that merchant (their name is in the description of the payment) and get those funds to the right place, even if the payment was technically voided.
I image one potential response to this post will be, it's just a beer. I'm more concerned about this happening to someone else. That said, it was an expensive beer that I wouldn't have bought in the first place save the fact that I really like this place and want to support these guys. ↩
There's a reason not many of us are bitcoiners... ↩
This is the issue I have always had with lightning - it's overly complex and unreliable.
I lived entirely off of lightning for the better part of four months last year with no problems. This was more of an issue of a custodian having a POS issue while using a censorship resistant money as the means of exchange. I only brought this up to help the POS provider to know that they’ve got a potential niche scenario that should probably be addressed.
It's on Square to make these types interactions so rare that we never need to fear them when transacting. This is valid feedback for them to improve their service. Good write-up.
I am sure a lot of quirky situations will come up that will need to be addressed. It was good of you to pay again. I am sure that is not difficult to do for just a drink but if it had been a high ticket item you would have had a real standoff. You should @jack this story on nostr.
Nice idea! I actually already cold DMed a ceo I’ve never met this very week about a job his company keeps posting that’s my dream job and actually something bitcoin-oriented that is in line with my experience. I never get a response and decided to go all in, but am now feeling embarrassed about it.
I think calling out another ceo I’ve never met on nostr about a customer service issue may too much bravado for me for one week. I really just hope that the right person sees this post and fixes what I’m assuming is a small and easy to handle bug so it just doesn’t happen to someone else.
Miles Suter on X is very responsive to these sorts of stories. (He works for square or cashapp in some customer facing bitcoin capacity)
https://x.com/milessuter
@MilesSuter on here
I think he is also on nostr. I'll post your story on x and see what he says.
Right on!
Cool! This post actually already has me half way there. Really just glad that it’s on his radar though. Should be a simple fix now that they’re aware of the situation
https://twiiit.com/milessuter/status/2057914107320217845
https://twiiit.com/BitcoinScoresby/status/2057895487458648376
As Wayne Gretzky said you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. I sent him a DM with your story.
Unlikely he sees it. I am sure he gets inundated with DMs but you never know.
Here’s hoping!
My guess is you shouldn't feel embarrassed. Even if I sometimes have to ignore cold contacts because I lack bandwidth, I don't have negative feelings towards those who reach out.
Thanks for the encouragement. I really have been feeling quite foolish about the whole thing. I had a position years ago in which people would cold contact me looking for work. I'm actually sad to say that I became very resentful, but in retrospect, it had way more to do with many of their entitled tones/attitudes now that I think about it.
Nice that bitcoin payments worked up until that weird moment.
But let's be honest, weird transaction glitches happen with fiat too, so it's not really a bitcoin-specific thing.
I'm sure they could have gotten it resolved with Square, eventually, if they could ever reach a human customer service agent. But who knows how long that'd take and how much effort.
I think the scene went down pretty much how I'd want it to. If I were the customer, I'd want to pay again, and if I were the restaurant owner, I'd want to let the customer off the hook (but secretly hope that he'll end up paying.) And it looks like that's exactly what happened.
For sure, it was definitely not a bitcoin thing. It had to do with what happens when square voids invoices as they’re being paid. I don’t blame them either. It’s just the nature of nascent technology.
You’d fit in well around these parts. ;)
Needs some technical skills
The transaction should roll back in the database but the app needs to notice.
Ótimo trabalho