21 sats \ 2 replies \ @xanny 26 Mar 2023 \ on: Lightning Network use case for efficient stacking bitcoin
This is seriously fucking awesome.
Personally I would prefer on-chain payments for receiving larger payments like rent, it avoids the hassle of maintaining inbound liquidity and the coin can hit my Ledger directly instead of being sent to an internet connected computer.
Even with a busy mempool, if I'm paying say $1000 of BTC for rent the fee is likely to be around $3-5 unless I'm pulling from an unusually large number of UTXOs, but a normie is likely to just be withdrawing from an exchange so this wouldn't be an issue anyway.
But the convenience of LN cannot be denied and this is really great for real. This is the way forward.
Interesting that when it was offered as an option no one took you up on it but they had no issue switching once it was mandatory. I'll keep this in mind. In the past I've put on eBay listings etc "10% discount for BTC payment" and no one took me up on it.
Maybe with these new Nostr marketplaces opening up I can finally sell my stuff for BTC with ease and leave eBay and PayPal behind for good.
I think you have a point. For rent, which are relatively large payments, I'm starting to think it still makes sense to have on-chain transactions. Going to check with tenants before they send, to see what the typical withdrawal fees are with the current busy mempool. It would also vary depending on time of day, of course.
The utility of LN really seems to shine with higher volume, smaller amount payments. For example, a more typical business with numerous small sales each day. For rent on the other hand, I'm realizing it's the inverse - low volume, high amount. This makes rent payments, for now, still pretty reasonable for on-chain direct-to-cold-storage transactions. However, as bitcoin reaches adoption, and all prices fall against it (including things like rent), lightning network usage as described in the OP will prove increasingly useful for everyone.
Thank you for your wonderful comment! I too, cannot WAIT to get free from ebay (they charge a wopping 10% against sellers, if I remember correctly. I always couldn't stand selling things there because of this extortion). Paypal has been left behind for me. Nostr marketplaces will be a godsend
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Exactly how I think of it too. Lightning is a godsend for small transactions and will really push adoption for those day to day uses like going to a shop or paying in a restaurant. Use cases where you're paying smaller amounts and instant settlement is vital for the business to provide a good service. That's why the vast majority of BTC payments in El Salvador are through Lightning.
But for use cases like paying rent, instant settlement isn't a necessity and even with a busy mempool the on-chain fees make up a tiny fraction of the total amount paid, and with larger sums you want that coin sent direct to cold storage if possible.
Absolutely agree that increased adoption of BTC will naturally lead to an increase in LN scaling - basic supply and demand, the more LN is used, the more incentive there is for people to run routing nodes.
In any case, seeing BTC adopted IRL especially for vital parts of life like paying rent rather than novelties is brilliant. You are a pioneer.
eBay is terrible for sellers and has been for a long time. Not only do they charge a final value fee but then PayPal takes their cut on top (part of the reason I offered a discount for BTC payment). And you better keep strict records proving you sent things out because by default they always side with buyers in a dispute.
Nostr markets and other BTC/LN native markets will be amazing. I'm glad people are working hard on building such cool stuff despite the inherent risk (if run on Nostr, you have a combination of censorship resistance, anonymity, and BTC - naturally some people will treat it like SIlk Road, so the devs are taking on big risk).
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