Do you run a watchtower? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

4699 sats \ 16 comments \ @ek 27 Apr 2023 bitcoin

Mobile non-custodial Lightning wallets like Phoenix* are almost always online. It's important to stay online (or at least come online within a specific period of time) in Lightning so your channel partner can't broadcast a old state which favors him.

However, even mobile phones can go offline for longer periods of time. For example, if you are on vacation and have no access to internet.

So the question came up.. Are people here running watchtowers?

And does it make sense to run a watchtower for your mobile wallet like Phoenix? Is that even possible?

Or would you just run your own LN node at this point and access it over a LN wallet like Zeus?

Vote yes if you run a watchtower yourself or have another service run a watchtower for you. Else no.

With LN nodes, I don't mean mobile nodes. I mean LN nodes on a server of yours or in the cloud which are consistently connected to the internet.

*Afaict, it's only non-custodial when the payment arrived. For example, when you are offline, ACINQ takes custody of your funds and pushes the funds to you when you are back.

Yes23.9%

No52.2%

I don't run a LN node23.9%

46 votes \ poll ended

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608 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 27 Apr 2023

I tested all LN mobile wallets (see my detailed guide here) but none of them have the option for adding a WT for your channels.

We are talking here about mobile LN nodes, NOT node management apps like Zeus, Zap, FullyNoded, Hexa etc, where the WT is configured on the node side not on the app.

Yes, with some of them like Phoenix, Breez, Nayuta, Bitkit, Electrum (trampoline) you have to trust their LSP offered in app, that will not cheat over your balance (you cannot open channels with specific nodes, only in Breez you can do it but not easy for noobs).

With OBW, Blixt, Electrum (non-trampoline), Valet the situation is different. Why? Because with these ones you can open channels with any node you want, including your own desktop node, from home. So you will trust yourself. In this way you could use a public routing node as your own LSP for your mobile LN node. As I explained in this other guide. Or this scenario using hosted channels, using fiatjaf's Poncho and OBW.

But still, if you want to open with other nodes, you do not have the option to add a WT. I know that Blixt is willing to add this feature, but not right now. Blixt is a full LND node.

Anyways, a WT on a mobile node I do not see it as urgent. Is not supposed to keep a large amount of money on your mobile, but just enough to do your regular shopping and having a lot of activity, not just a dormant useless channel.

Also some of public nodes, if you open private channels with them (on mobile node you open only private channels), will not keep too much time your channel open, due to not being efficient for them if you do not have activity.

General advice: open private channels ONLY with well known nodes, that you can stay in contact, have good liquidity and willing to offer you LSP for your mobile node. Example of such list here.

541 sats \ 1 reply \ @gnilma 27 Apr 2023

I run 2 lightning nodes on 2 different home servers. They both run a watchtower server and are watching over one another. I also have both nodes connected to Voltage's watchtower in case my home internet goes down. When I want to use lightning on mobile, I just use Zeus to access my nodes running at home. Zeus kicks ass by the way.

73 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 27 Apr 2023

Yeah, heard a lot of good stuff about Zeus. Will definitely be the first wallet I try when I have my LN node setup.

469 sats \ 0 replies \ @BTC_LN 27 Apr 2023

Watchtower Swaps in case you're looking for a matching partner to watch each other's node: https://lightningnetwork.plus/watch_swaps

678 sats \ 0 replies \ @KoreaComK 27 Apr 2023

For a long time I ran a node on the Lightning Network. However, I realized that the requirements needed to keep a node well connected and active were higher than my current setup (rasp4 with 4gb of RAM and 1 Tera HDD). Information on minimum requirements 2~3 years ago was not widely reported. Therefore, I turned off my LN node and turned it into a bitcoin node that runs only what is necessary to guarantee my privacy (mempool, jam, bitcoin core, electrum server).

189 sats \ 0 replies \ @kenn_b 27 Apr 2023

I've been running WT client and added a few watchtowers, but there is no activity (even though I know for a fact that at least one is functional), so my guess is that something is not right. I hope that the LND 0.16 update, which has quite a bit of watchtower updates fixes this.

I run Umbrel (the LND update did not make it there yet) and it will not let me delete any watchtowers I add (unless I go removing the .db file).

66 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 27 Apr 2023

The poll is a bit confusing. You refer to run a WT client or a WT server ?

I do not run a LN node

This should be split in 2:

I do not run a public routing node (mobile LN nodes are private, but still full LN nodes)
I do not run a LN node at all (no public, no private)

Amazing that people today do not know that are two types of LN nodes: public and private.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 27 Apr 2023

You refer to run a WT client or a WT server?

Didn't I make this clear with:

Vote yes if you run a watchtower yourself or have another service run a watchtower for you. Else no

So as long as you run a WT server or just a client, you vote yes.

This should be split in 2:

I do not run a public routing node (mobile LN nodes are private, but still full LN nodes) I do not run a LN node at all (no public, no private)

Didn't I make this clear with:

With LN nodes, I don't mean mobile nodes. I mean LN nodes on a server of yours or in the cloud which are consistently connected to the internet.

I edited this parts in, so maybe you missed them?

I excluded mobile nodes since in the context of this poll, they count as "I don't run a LN node" because they still require a watchtower to have the same protection as a non-mobile LN node.

Private or public node doesn't matter for this poll.

126 sats \ 6 replies \ @quark 27 Apr 2023

Wait, are the funds in Phoenix at risk if I turn off the phone or lose data connection? This should be clearly notified to the user if that were the case. I think ACINQ is trusted but things like these are why people are reluctant to learn and adopt this.

181 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 27 Apr 2023

No, hold your horses. Is not that easy for ACINQ to do that. Also is about reputation for such a big LSP, so you are getting scared for what? ACINQ stealing your 2 sats? Do you really think they would throw away their reputation for such a meaningless amount that you will have in your mobile wallet?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @quark 27 Apr 2023

Yes, I agree with you. It is not in the interest of ACINQ to do that. But it is good to know to not open random channels when using blixt as you said to be a bit careful to choose which channels to use. For our 2 sats hehe.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @petertodd 28 Apr 2023

Phoenix warns you about this if Phoenix isn't able to run frequently enough.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @quark 28 Apr 2023

Ah. thanks. Also, I'm seeing this about watchtower in Phoenix https://github.com/ACINQ/phoenix/pull/351

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek OP 27 Apr 2023

I think custody of funds is not why people are reluctant. In fact, that's familiar to them. They basically lived their whole life with someone having their funds in custody.

3 sats \ 0 replies \ @quark 27 Apr 2023

Right. People are very used to that. But specially with current situation with banks, even not having a watchtower could be safer than fiat on a bank 😁

63 sats \ 0 replies \ @2bithits 27 Apr 2023

Not at the moment but I will look into it soon as I need to upgrade my lightning node hardware