The Future is now: Shitification of pizza. \ stacker news ~tech

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The Future is now: Shitification of pizza.

2062 sats \ 22 comments \ @llamabyte 25 Jul 2023 tech

In the 1990's ordering a pizza consisted of the following steps:

Call a pizza restaurant
Place an order
Give a delivery address
Pay with cash upon delivery. (keep the change !)
Consume Hot Pizza.

We thought the internet would make this even simpler. We imagined some variation of :

Go to a restaurants website.
Click on the pizza you want
Put in the delivery address.
Pay for the pizza with cash.

We thought what would be simpler,faster, better is the phone interaction part.

What we have is:

\1. Call a Pizza restaurant. 2.a They don't take phone orders. 2.a.i Go to a restaurants website. Modern order menus allow way more choice from toppings to length of cooking, this is a good thing. 2.a.ii Close the pop-up asking for your email address to stay informed about pizza news. 2.a.iii The restaurant only accepts deliveries though a third party. 2.a.iii.1 The third party (Uber,Skip,ect) does not accept cash. You must enter in a credit card or use paypal. 2.a.iii.1.a The third party have a privacy policy longer than a paragraph which implies you are entering into a data retention and risk relationship with them. Who cares it's just your pizza ordering habits right ? lol 2.a.iii.1.b The third party will add your email, phone number and name to a marketing list and retain your information for 7 years to comply with money laundering regulations (wtf? it's just a pizza right ?) 2.a.ii.1.b.i HAHA now you are getting random calls at 2am from China and India 2.a.ii.1.b.ii LMAO your name, address credit-card shows up in a hack 5 years from now 2.a.iii.2 The third party does not have a privacy policy at all 2.a.iV The restaurant delivers but you need to sign up for an account on their site. 2.a.iV.1 Sign up for an account on the restaurants website, accepting and totally reading through all of their Privacy policy and data retention policies. 2.a.iV.1.a They do not accept cash. 2.a.iV.1.a.i Repeat 2.a.iii.1 to 2.a.iii.2 2.b They accept phone orders but not cash. 2.c They accept phone orders and Cash at the door. 3.a Order the pizza. 3.b Order the pizza online. 3.b.i Get a call back to verify your order with a human anyways (wut) 3.b.i.1 Be placed on hold for several minutes so that the Call Agent can be payed to scroll though porn instead of taking a new call (this happened). 4.a The pizza arrives. 4.b The pizza arrives but the delivery driver only takes cash for change with him if you call the restaurant to tell them. 4.c The Card reader is not working and needs to reboot. \5. You get the pizza. The pizza is cold.

It's been a decade of bitcoin and almost no one accepts bitcoin for day to day interactions like this, a simple interaction that lighting could handle. It's been two decades and life has, in total, been made more intrusive, front loaded and future loaded with risk than before the internet. What has any of it solved ?

It is very clear at this point that the larger market does not want bitcoin, it wants credit cards and apple pay. Cancellings and Unbankings have not convinced larger segments of the normie-core needed for Hyper bitcoinization, to start using it. The core that run the pizza shops, the plumbers, corner store vendors (they have a bitcoin atm but don't accept it for purchases, what is up with that ?) And even if they did, the habit of all the other KYC stuff is deeply ingrained at this point.

These same people, the silicon valley set, want to go further, with things like CBDC's, Worldcoin, X. But they haven't even made the present better.

Alternatives systems, Tor, i2p, nostr, bitcoin, lightning, monero, linux, openBSD are the frontline in a battle for a very real already shitty present. Being born today or recently and using these systems, never knowing how simple things were or can be, is to be encrusted in a sort of overly complicated nonsense machine and not knowing anything else.

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33 sats \ 2 replies \ @doubleplusgood23 26 Jul 2023

What kind of local pizza shop doesn't take phone orders lol

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Craze 26 Jul 2023

Its very weird NGL not to take phone orders at least for the locals, yea if you are doing some drug supplies the matter is different but for the food industry it is essential not to ignore this.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @llamabyte OP 26 Jul 2023

Several ! Many in my city. Very tasty but got'damn...

78 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker 25 Jul 2023

It is very clear at this point that the larger market does not want bitcoin, it wants credit cards and apple pay.

I don't think it's that people want ApplePay, per se. It's just that most people are too lazy to read instructions, which Bitcoin requires. Versus ApplePay:

Step -2: Have Apple pay app (already on your phone coz apple pushed an update) Step -1: Link credit card (already did because you linked it to your apple ID) Step 0: Pay

Sometimes tech just feels like a stupid battle to see who can onboard the most people in as few steps as possible. (It's what makes Apple so powerful, fuck apple). Bitcoin has too many steps

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Craze 26 Jul 2023

The main is setting up the exchange, transferring BTC from there to wallet, for BTC particularly have to also look out for fees and other different stuff. Although I think this is not something to get demoralized since we are at the beginning phase, yes the technology is fast but evolution to a better is always slower. Overtime there would be solutions to this I believe like lightning btc solves a lot of payment problems, fees, waiting times etc. New minds, new problems, new solutions, thus betterment overall.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @llamabyte OP 25 Jul 2023

Yup

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @AyCaramba 26 Jul 2023

I remember domino's in the 90s: 30 minutes or free! Back then (when the only food delivered was pizza) it was a joy for me to order.

It is curious, but there was big counterparty risk for the restaurant side since you pay only after delivery, meaning you could reject the pizza for many reasons (long delay, quality, not your ingredients, etc). Still, the experience was good for both parties and problems could always be solved by talking to the pizza guy, who was usually an employee of the pizza place.

Now the delivery apps (uber eats etc) and its payment methods act as escrows, which might prevent both parties from misbehave, however, all the trust has to be put in them.

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @mallardshead 26 Jul 2023

The future of payments: biometric 👁️‍🗨️, requiring nothing. My Whole Foods just installed palm print readers. People love it. Apple with ApplePay is a walled garden. Most debit cards have NFC. CBDC's people will use faster than bitcoiner's ran to verify themselves for a blue check. Venmo, PayPal, now Twitter getting in on the payments game. It's really a fucking mess. Here's the thing though, all that convenience doesn't mean the underlying money being used is improving linearly with the convenience. So while they compete with one another for payments, bitcoin is happy to let them take larger steps away from its value proposition as both hard money, and as an open source global payment network. The bitcoin thesis will improve with fiat's slow debasements

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @llamabyte OP 26 Jul 2023

people will use faster than bitcoiner's ran to verify themselves for a blue check.

So a concern i have is that the people with good judgement one can trust will eventually wittle down to so few, there won't be enough to restart civilization once this experiment with trusting others with your data goes wrong. The circle gets smaller and smaller as these obvious attacks are presented.

It may just be a guy who can code living under a tarp and another who can bake bread and a few women in a coma on life support popping out babies. /s

The bitcoin thesis will improve with fiat's slow debasements

Bitcoin has gotten better as fiat has gotten worse, i agree. The Austrian principals are strong with Bitcoin. History shows that fiat currencies eventually devalue.

#BUT

We are in the digital age. A new age unlike any other. CBDC's are a new solution for a new age. They present a solution alongside technologies that did not exist in roman times or in the weimar republic; supply creation/destruction,insurance and digital fiat. The state is internationaly coordinating creation/destruction of the money, commodities (food,oil,silver,gold) in real time in response to real signals a few days if not hours old.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Brunswick 26 Jul 2023

The peak of civilization was when you could just pick up a phone, order as many pizzas as you want, wait 20 minutes and shove cash at a guy after he rings your doorbell and hands you pizzas and you didn't have to feel ripped off in the end. Its all been downhill since then.

3 sats \ 5 replies \ @maths 26 Jul 2023

Ah, the delightful nostalgia of the 90s, when all we had to fret about were bad hairstyles and not losing our pogs. But while your article paints a rather gloomy picture of today's tech-infused pizza-ordering process, allow me, if I may, to dismantle your lament, brick by digital brick.

Firstly, your assertion that the internet has somehow complicated the pizza ordering process is, at best, amusingly naive. While it's true that we now have pop-ups to contend with and third-party delivery services to navigate, it seems you're overlooking one minor detail: I can order a pizza without uttering a single word or changing out of my Star Trek pyjamas. Not to mention the time saved by not having to spell out my address or negotiate my topping preferences with a harried phone operator.

Secondly, I must scoff at the assertion that having more choice of toppings and control over the cooking process is somehow a burden. On the contrary, it is a culinary liberation. If I want a pizza with pineapple, jalapenos, and anchovies, I should be able to do so without judgment from the pizza establishment or society at large. The modern order menus are the harbinger of freedom, my dear.

As for the data retention and privacy concerns, while I agree it's something to be cognizant of, your argument reads like a 1984 Orwellian scare tactic. If you're ordering pizza, you're already sharing your address. Would you rather the pizza delivery driver use carrier pigeons and cryptic messages in invisible ink? And might I remind you, the majority of people were ordering with credit cards even in the 90s. The phone operators could have easily stolen your information then as well.

The idea that the market doesn't want Bitcoin because it isn't widely accepted for pizza purchases is an oversimplification. Bitcoin's inherent value is not tied to its pizza-purchasing ability, just as the value of the US dollar isn't tied to its ability to buy me a hot dog from a street vendor. You're comparing apples to Apple Pay, so to speak.

Lastly, I would urge you to remember that just because something is newer and more complex, doesn't mean it's inherently worse. I'm sure there were those who thought Shakespeare was 'too complicated' and wanted to stick to their hieroglyphs. The "silicon valley set" you deride are simply pushing for a future where we can enjoy a slice of pepperoni with a side of progress.

So, lament the good old days if you wish, but perhaps it's not the internet that's made pizza ordering more complicated. Perhaps it's the refusal to adapt to a changing world that's really leaving a sour taste in your mouth. Not to worry, though, I'm sure there's an app for that.

6 sats \ 4 replies \ @llamabyte OP 26 Jul 2023

I can order a pizza without uttering a single word or changing out of my Star Trek pyjamas. Not to mention the time saved by not having to spell out my address or negotiate my topping preferences with a harried phone operator.

I did admit in my article that the modern online menu ordering is great. But it offers the same dumb,false choice people using worldcoin are offered. You can't have x without y. You can't have convenience without divulging your privacy. This is a trained Pavlovian response eschewed by the likes of Facebook and Apple TOS. It is killing innovation.

In 1990 i could try 30 different pizza shops a month, one each day with no more effort than it took for the initial phone call on day one.

Now, i would have to either sign up for something like ~30 different pizza places ordering pages, give out my credit details to 30 different pizza places, or sign up to them in addition to the 5 data siphoning food delivery apps, their loyalty programs, ad campaigns and data breaches for the next 40 years.

As for the data retention and privacy concerns, while I agree it's something to be cognizant of, your argument reads like a 1984 Orwellian scare tactic.

That's because we are in it, we are in 1984. Look at the Apple Vision pro. How is that not 1984, it uses tech to anticipate your future emotional state based on physical responses.......

If you're ordering pizza, you're already sharing your address.

One time, over the phone, that they might write down on some dirty napkin and discard. Not sell to a data hoarder who is *creating a profile of you and your habits to potentially sell to unfriendly people, nations and entities. These antagonistic entities used to have to hire agents to follow you around and break into your trash can. Now they just pay some data hoarding startup. I don't think you know what's actually going on. It's not just pizza. It's tampons too.

And might I remind you, the majority of people were ordering with credit cards even in the 90s. The phone operators could have easily stolen your information then as well.

Absolutely not, it was an option, but because of fees most providers wanted cash.

just as the value of the US dollar isn't tied to its ability to buy me a hot dog from a street vendor

That's literally its value, it is or was the reserve currency of the world. Entire countries use it as their currency for precisely this reason. You don't know enough about money to have a productive conversation.

just because something is newer and more complex, doesn't mean it's inherently worse.

No but it does mean it might not win. Better technologies have lost to more convenient simpler designs in the past. Betamax/VHS, countless others. With the digital age we simply cannot afford to let this happen. If proprietary solutions win it would mean the ossification and death of the human species. Digital enslavement really is that dire. Any Sam Altman cum Bill Gates could dictate policy genetic and physical in such a permanent way it would make Mesopotamian kings look like democratically elected presidents.

but perhaps it's not the internet that's made pizza ordering more complicated.

it has and it's shit. the internet is shit. I;m native to the internet and I've adapted plenty, and it's objectively made simple things unnecessarily complicated. We had a chance to make simple elegant and safe things, and we made high pH shit which is useless as fertilizer, so it's worse than shit. (it's not that bad, but there are some very concerning trends and habits going on)

6 sats \ 2 replies \ @maths 26 Jul 2023

Man, I can feel the nostalgia in your words, and you bring up some great points. The 90s were a time of simplicity in many ways, but they were also a time of limitations. I think it's essential to remember that advancements in technology have brought us both opportunities and challenges, and it's up to us to navigate them.

On the matter of privacy, you're spot on. We do live in an age where data is the new oil, and there are serious concerns about how companies use our personal information. It's a genuine issue, and I won't deny that. But we need to remember that the power is not completely out of our hands. The same technology that allows our data to be gathered also provides us tools to protect our privacy. We have encryption, VPNs, ad-blockers, and most importantly, blockchain technology - which is transforming how we handle data, making it possible for us to enjoy both privacy and convenience.

Now, about the pizza. Yes, online ordering does require signing up, but let's compare it to the 90s. Back then, you'd need to have a stack of menus at your place, make a call (hoping the line isn't busy), and then read out your order (praying they get it right). You'd need to repeat this process every single time. Now, you sign up once, save your preferences, and then it's a matter of a few clicks. You don't have to repeat your address, your favorite toppings, or your credit card details each time. Plus, if you want to try a new place, you don't have to physically go there to get a menu or hope they have a spot in the yellow pages. You have access to all the pizza places in your vicinity at your fingertips, complete with reviews from other customers. That's pretty neat.

As for the whole data breach concern, remember that technology cuts both ways. With developments in cybersecurity, two-factor authentication, biometric data protection, and strict regulations like GDPR, we're fighting back. And with cryptocurrencies, we're moving towards financial transactions that don't require us to give up sensitive information.

You talked about better technologies losing to more convenient, simpler designs. That's true. But remember, it's not the technology itself that's complicated, it's how we choose to implement and use it. The internet, for instance, isn't inherently bad. It's given us the ability to communicate, learn, and create like never before. Sure, it has its dark corners, but what we make of it is ultimately up to us.

Lastly, you mentioned the fear of proprietary solutions leading to "digital enslavement." I get where you're coming from. But again, we've seen the rise of open-source solutions, the democratization of technology. There are more people than ever working to ensure that technology remains a tool for liberation, not enslavement.

So yes, the 90s had their charm. But I believe we're in a better place now, technology-wise. It's not without its challenges, but let's remember that every era has its own. And with each challenge comes an opportunity to innovate and improve.

6 sats \ 1 reply \ @llamabyte OP 26 Jul 2023

You have access to all the pizza places in your vicinity at your fingertips, complete with reviews from other customers

This is actually another shitification. Because your identity is attached to your real i.d If a company feels they have lost business from your review, you are personally liable and at the very least the provider is. So google or yelp are incentivized to hide or completely remove real,useful or negative reviews. This has happened many many times, and so the review system that should be helpful is broken. All the reviews you see are vapid or short and skewed towards the positive.

There are more people than ever working to ensure that technology remains a tool for liberation, not enslavement.

And they (we, i include myself in this) are getting it wrong. Think about it this way: If the only way i can transfer value to someone safely in 2023 for a pizza, is on a 14 year old liberated computer without intel ME, running some janky ass linux distro, running a vpn, running tor, using non-kyc bitcoin i got from bisq(oh my god, don't get me started on fucking bisq) just to not have my data used against me at some point in the future, when in 1990 or even 2010, i could achive the exact same level of privacy with none of those tools, we are doing something wrong.

I am not saying these tools and this fight are accomplishing good things. I'm saying the efforts are so diffuse as to be homeopathic. We need a nation level response to these nation and supra nation level attacks. Modern Open source hardware,software,payment,services suite. Top to bottom. Or perish, Apple/Amazon are the best. They will wipe us the fuck out.

Apple let alone all of FANG is like two or three times the entire Open Source/crypto/Bitcoin market cap combined. They are a nation. What the fuck is your OpenBSD libc license from 1991 going to do about that ?This stuff keeps me up at night, i think there might be 10 to 20 other people with no money or power this keeps up at night. Apple vision Should have scared the fuck out of everyone. It did not. Every one is just going to sleep walk into that shit. Meanwhile the answers to them such as simula VR, PowerPc laptop Limp along with funding in the fractions of what single FANG luncheon cost.

Oh well, guess i'll just download the latest Debian re-skin and fuck around with a new re-invented package manager.

But I believe we're in a better place now, technology-wise.

Name one thing. One non-medical thing, that has added only positive outcomes. Not only are we not in a better place we are in the same place at best or a worse place. Objectively. The internet has expanded the scope of consequences for ones actions beyond time and worse non-action to the immediate. It's not a glass half full or empty thing. I'm saying the water in the glass is brown.

Welcome to my TED talk.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @llamabyte OP 26 Jul 2023

I am not saying these tools and this fight are not accomplishing good things.**

they are

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undergotten 26 Jul 2023

but perhaps it's not the internet that's made pizza ordering more complicated.

it has and it's shit. the internet is shit

The privacy aspect is obviously of deep concern, but as for simplicity? No contest. I have preferred ordering food through a website since the very first time that was an option. And now the apps like Grub Hub and Door Dash make that shit an extremely enjoyable experience for the user (as long as you don't think about how much money you're wasting).

1 sat \ 1 reply \ @benthecarman 26 Jul 2023

because bitcoin is a money, not a visa alternative

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @llamabyte OP 26 Jul 2023

Money only exists to make transactions of value easier, more secure, and fungible. Plot a trend graph along these axii and you get something like beads<salt<silver<gold<fiat<credit cards<{whatever digital thing is better and ends up winning}

The best user interaction experience so far, for me is Monero. Better than ETH better than lightning that's for damn sure. I am not shilling Monero, I trying to articulate that if BTC is to win, we are not doing a good job of closing the gap in experince of an every day thing like buying a pizza with what was once. Infact, with more and more layers and specialiazed solutions, like new address schemes, we are moving away and worse experiences than the KYC lazy alternatives. After a decade, how does bitcoin use approach the simple cash experince ? It does not. Monero is a little better.

Something is causing us to misalocate development resources and focus. I believe it might be engineer facination with complexity. (How many different ways can we sign and encrypt and send signed and encrypted data to eachother in time locked bondage sessions.)

If we are not trying to beat apple, and other cantillion institutions offering supperior user experiences, who are we trying to beat ?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Craze 26 Jul 2023

When it comes to Bitcoin and Pizza, the 10000 BTC incident is unforgettable. A reminder not to doubt the technology of bitcoin.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @netstatic 26 Jul 2023

This is a false equivalency, the example of the modern day is contrived. I could also make a contrived example of physical in-store pickup where I put complications that could happen like asking for pizza options they don't have (spinach alfredo, bbq chicken, etc), asking how much the total will be along with the delivery fee, or being put on hold because of busy lines.

I could also paint the picture of the best app use case where I open doordash, pick the same order I do every Tuesday, and pay after accepting the price by using my card on file.

Privacy concerns are a separate issue, but in terms of convenience, apps have definitely made things easier. Unfortunately cipherpunks have never had a reputation of making user-friendly but I feel like that will get better over time as we get a more and more people into Bitcoin with different skills they can bring to the table for Bitcoin adoption.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @OriginalSize 26 Jul 2023

Thank you for putting in the work. Cash has always been a risk for pizza delivery drivers but a bearable one until credit could be done via clicks rather than reading the numbers. Bitcoin works well for both clicks and in person, even taking away the risk as the driver could have watch-only access. It's still too early as far a bitcoin distribution goes but some enterprising folks will do decent business when they see and serve the cash niche.

16 sats \ 0 replies \ @fiatjaf 26 Jul 2023

"too early" my ass.