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592 sats \ 13 replies \ @DarthCoin 27 Oct 2023 \ on: How would you summarize the trade-offs of Coin Join? bitcoin
resumed in just one meme
https://i.postimg.cc/fydsK3N3/mixers-monkey-fight.jpg
In a world where LN exist and works pretty well, onchain coinjoins became useless.
Pre-LN time, yes I used coinjoins. But after LN became a norm, I stopped using any coinjoin. Is useless for me.
I use onchain exclusively to opn/close LN channels.
All my txs are over LN now.
If you know how to use LN in a proper way, you do not need onchain coinjoins.
If you really want to still use onchain coinjoins, fine for me, but in the end you are just throwing away more sats. That means more sats for me...
fun fact: even SN could be a nice tool to coinjoin your sats...
Pre-LN time, yes I used coinjoins. But after LN became a norm, I stopped using any coinjoin. Is useless for me.
Lightning doesn't have perfect security, and neither does coinjoin. I personally use both. So if someone sends me on-chain funds, I coinjoin it with Wasabi, and then open lightning channels to actually use those funds.
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Yeah, I think in the future and even now to some extent we won't really need coin join. But lightning is not magic(for those reading this. Darth knows this very well). Part of this will be the increase in bitcoin usage driving up on-chain fees.
The other thing is that adoption grows most people will be paid in bitcoin not exchanging it for fiat. They will likely be paid off-chain via lightning.
I've said it before but thanks for your guides @DarthCoin.
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I will let you think about something....
Through a LN channel of 10M sats you could "coinjoin" 10 BTC. When you close it, it will remain only the info of 10M sats on one side or another and nothing about those 10BTC you passed through...
Let them fight over onchain coinjoins, do your stuff over LN...
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That sounds really interesting.
Do you perhaps have a guide for this?
Is there also a maximum for the amount that is being transferred on LN?
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see my SN bio, lots of guides there
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fun fact: even SN could be a nice tool to coinjoin your sats...
How is SN supposed to be a coinjoin tool? Just asking
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how many LN wallets did you used until now?
how many submarine swaps did you used until now?
how many LN nodes did you run until now?
First you need to learn very well how to use LN and then think about how to use SN...
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Again, just asking.
With regards to wallets, I've been using (in this order) Zap, Eclair, OBW, SBW, BlueWallet, Phoenix, LND, c-lightning, blixt (since I read one of you guides) .
The question was just because I can understand the privacy features of using LN to move in-ou from the main chain, but I can't understand how that could be called 'coinjoin'
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If I give you 100 sats for this comment, can you tell me from which channel is coming?
Can you tell me if those sats comes from a specific UTXO?
The answer is no.
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Okay so the idea is that stacker.news is a huge black box whereby an external observer cannot triangulate the provenience of funds that come out from stacker.news wallets.
In this sense okay, that could be considered a coinjoin-like feature
Thanks
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I can't give specific details here. There are too many idiots on SN reading and don't want to put k00b on trouble.
If you know how LN channels works and know how to use specific LN wallet apps, you will find the way.
Use your brain and think about the process. It's easy, tested.
I wrote several guides about this kind of process.
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What about if you have KYC coins, from an exchange, that you're planning on hodling long term? Coin join?
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- There's no such thing as "KYC coins". Please stop saying that. If there will be such thing, Bitcoin will cease to exist.
- If you never go back to fiat, why do you care so much? Just spend your coins on hookers and beers. Don't you?
If you plan to go back to fiat by selling those coins, then yes, you are fucked.
Also there's no "long term" holding. It is freedom (Bitcoin) or slavery (fiat/CBDC). So choose wisely. Bitcoin is simply money.
Reminder: Satoshi's papers, stated:
Abstract. A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution.
I do not see anywhere there saying: holding long term or getting rich. Is pure P2P money.
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