Is OCEAN truly a ’decentralized‘ mining pool? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

Is OCEAN truly a ’decentralized‘ mining pool?

7967 sats \ 41 comments \ @SatoshiNakanodo 29 Nov 2023 bitcoin

Don't get me wrong, I like the premise of a mining pool where the individual miner gets to build their own blocks and payouts come directly from the Bitcoin network...

BUT, can Ocean really be called 'decentralized' if there's a core team running it, promoting it, and raising capital? During their launch event they even said they'd need to (at times) push out payments manually if under a certain threshold.

I'm on the fence. Push me off.

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395 sats \ 1 reply \ @deletedd 29 Nov 2023

deleted by author

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatoshiNakanodo OP 29 Nov 2023

Hmm, yeah... This doesn't answer the question. But sats for the attempt.

677 sats \ 3 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 29 Nov 2023

Certainly it is not 100% decentralized. The word decentralized is often misused. Even Bitcoin is not 100% decentralized. But I believe in those who try their best to decentralize as much as possible with the existing resources. This will take a long time and may never be 100% decentralized.

219 sats \ 1 reply \ @elvismercury 29 Nov 2023

I've grown to loathe the word decentralized. It's become a religious term, and people have broadly forgotten what it's meant to be in service of -- if they ever knew in the first place.

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @021da48107 29 Nov 2023

I agree 100% but this is what humans do to just about every word/concept/etc.

e.g.:

Libertarianism, Anarchism, Ancap, "voluntarism".
Statists talking about "freedom".
Pretty much all religions.
etc, etc, etc

9 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatoshiNakanodo OP 29 Nov 2023

I can't disagree.

63 sats \ 0 replies \ @021da48107 29 Nov 2023

Others have said something similar in this thread but I'll just reiterate: "decentralization" is a spectrum.

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @xz 29 Nov 2023

Not massively aware of what Ocean purport to be but in my estimation it's this.

They see that mining has become a game of size.
They are trying to draw attention to this and actively trying to encourage solo mining.

I keep having this thought in my head. If everyone who lived in North or South of the tropics that uses a heater in winter used a miner to provide heat, how much of a dent would that put into the centralization of mining pools. I know I'm not the first to think that but the thought in itself illustrates the point. Pools form. It's healthy. But so is the fundamental human right to burn electricity with fiat.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatoshiNakanodo OP 30 Nov 2023

It couldn’t hurt. I have been wanting to try this.

154 sats \ 1 reply \ @justBrian 29 Nov 2023

Dont let perfect be the enemy of better 🤙

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @southside263 30 Nov 2023

📠

12 sats \ 3 replies \ @Zepasta 29 Nov 2023

Its closed source. Pass.

12 sats \ 0 replies \ @fedelang 30 Nov 2023

This.

They are not saying they won't disclose de code, they are not saying it will remain undisclosed. We will need to wait and see.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @justBrian 1 Dec 2023

what pool are you using instead ?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Zepasta 1 Dec 2023

I don't mine.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @softglitter2d 1 Dec 2023

Answering directly to your question: no, they're not decentralized. Answering with more context: no, they're not and they're doing exactly what some topics ago we were discussing or what Stratum v2 is really trying to resolve. If the first block they mined, they used filters¹ to prevent certain types of transactions THEY don't like. I'll assume their hashraters didn't like also.

In fact, it's funny how these things works, Luke Dash in the past put biblical verses without asking anyone and without pay. And now they want to filter with their OP_RETURN version. Come on, man.

A fancy way to say censorship ↩

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatoshiNakanodo OP 1 Dec 2023

Yes, it's quite ironic. Humans will be humans. Thanks for the links to references. Much appreciated.

172 sats \ 1 reply \ @nullama 29 Nov 2023

From what I read, they don't claim to be decentralized, they simply are helping to decentralize mining.

I don't think you can have a truly 100% decentralized mining pool, as you would need someone to control the hardware for connectivity at a minimum.

Maybe some kind of P2P mining?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatoshiNakanodo OP 30 Nov 2023

Yeah, I admit I may have been reacting to what others have been saying. After reading again their website says their mission is to “radically decentralize Bitcoin mining.” I think it’s a step in that direction anyway.

221 sats \ 0 replies \ @Neo 30 Nov 2023

Here is great podcast episode by Stephan with a deep dive into "the" Ocean ;) https://stephanlivera.com/episode/528/

50 sats \ 1 reply \ @spraveenitpro 29 Nov 2023

What next? Does it pass the howe test?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatoshiNakanodo OP 29 Nov 2023

Heh heh. That's funny.

88 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 29 Nov 2023

Is their aim to be a completely decentralized mining pool or to help further decentralize mining?

60 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatoshiNakanodo OP 29 Nov 2023

Right. Let's say that then. Rather than, "we are already there." To be fair, I may be conflating what others are saying about Ocean, rather than what the team is saying themselves.

111 sats \ 2 replies \ @Quasianon 30 Nov 2023

I bet Stratum V2 will have a bigger impact than Ocean in miners’ decentralization

1 sat \ 1 reply \ @Quasianon 3 Dec 2023

Now, Ocean WITH Stratum V2 sounds promising. It should arrive next year

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @moneyball 3 Dec 2023

DEMAND pool supports Stratum V2 and is available today. https://x.com/bitentrepreneur/status/1730350206317703648?s=12

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @Jed 30 Nov 2023 freebie

they haven’t claimed that the pool is decentralized. The claim is that it helps bitcoin be more decentralized than it is now.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @duvel 29 Nov 2023

Someone on Nostr said that it's not decentralized at all, just faster payments. I asked what he would consider decentralized: ”When there's not a single centralized party that controls everything about block building and payouts”.

Would everyone agree that these are criteria for decentralized mining pools?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 29 Nov 2023

Not sure.

But i will say that we're seeing more hash rate pointed towards ocean. I guess that will continue this week, but it will be interesting to see how much the market values this model over their profits.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @nicosey 29 Nov 2023

Hope they add braidpool - https://github.com/braidpool/braidpool

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 29 Nov 2023

(more) decentralized than fully centralized :)

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @fedelang 30 Nov 2023

As of right now it's not decentralized. Future promise it's it will be (?). I recommend you talk to Luke and WK directly in their IRC channel @ irc.freenode.net #OCEAN

Given the current mining scene dominated by shitcoiners and grifters, this could be the best we have. I mined with braiins until they decided to toss us out to the lions.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @patternn 30 Nov 2023

I wouldn't say decentralized, but strictly talking, to add a new pool is a contribution to widen te distribution of hashrate (as long as they are succsesful recruiting miners), the most interesting to see from my pow is what they call phase 2. All the rest looks quite similar, like payment thresholds, custody while it is achieved (an escrow would have been nicer)> It's going to be interesting to see how they evolve, but a new pool with different model is always good

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 30 Nov 2023

decentralized is such a bastardised term, what does it mean? What is meaningfully decentralised? OCEAN just gives individual miners more autonomy and to do tasks that were originally part of being a miner but was outsource to pools

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @GlobalThreat 30 Nov 2023

might be a step in the right direction.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 29 Jan

I think they claim to increase decentralization, not to "be" decentralized

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @02df4abd70 1 Dec 2023

The term "decentralized" can be nuanced. While Ocean offers individual miners direct payouts, the presence of a core team managing operations and intervention for low threshold payments may raise questions on its complete decentralization. This hybrid model blurs the line between centralized and decentralized structures.

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