Dont doxx transactional details, but am curious what you think about bisq if you havent used it before. If you have used it, what you do/dont like.
Yes, i use it regularly 13.9%
Yes, i have tried it34.7%
No45.8%
Whats bisq?5.6%
72 votes \ poll ended
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687 sats \ 7 replies \ @gnilma 4 Dec 2023
Bisq used to be my primary way to stack sats with Robosats being a secondary method. A few thoughts as a Northman using Bisq:
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the Canadian order book is ridiculously thin, making sats at least 3%-5% more expensive to stack. The same seem to be the case for smaller currencies. But I've looked at the Euro and USD order books and they seem much better with multiple offers asking at market price (I haven't check recently, but at least that was still the case earlier this year when u still used bisq)
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the primary payment method in Canada is interact e-transfer, which is something like Zelle or CashApp, but works between most, if not all, big and small Canadian banks. In other words, you are still sending/receiving fiat to/from a stranger which is recorded and tracked by the banks. I assume the same is the case for other countries, where the fiat side always deals with some sort of bank transfers. The risk here is you might be sending/receiving fiat to/from a person of interest and gets unwanted attention from government departments as a result.
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being on chain only means that the service is only reasonable to use under a low fee environment and fees get quite expensive when fees are high (like right now or maybe even higher in the future)
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it is not the most straight forward / user friendly service to use. A computer is required and you probably need to be somewhat technically competent to use it (at least know your way around installing software and tweaking settings).
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you need to first have some bitcoin in order to use Bisq, because you need bitcoin to post as collateral for your trade. As such, it is not a tool for onboarding people completely new to bitcoin, unless they have a bitcoiner friend to post collateral for them.
I've used Bisq regularly for about a year, but have switched earlier this year to bullbitcoin non-kyc cash deposits for stacking. Feel free to ask any questions you have about using Bisq and I'll try my best to answer them based on my user experience.
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31 sats \ 1 reply \ @BITC0IN 4 Dec 2023
the problem with e-transfers is they can be charged back by up to 90 days.
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85 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma 4 Dec 2023
Yes, there is the risk of e-transfer chargebacks. The thing that prevents Bisq users from doing that is probably the fact that Bisq is a reputation based system. Although you are anonymous on the system, you use the same nym all the time. You can see how many trades you've completed with the same trading partner and you can see how long (how many days) a trading partner's payment method had been "signed". To have a "signed" payment method, you need to used said payment method to buy bitcoin from a "signed" peer and wait 30 days after the trade is complete. As such, your reputation takes time to build up and it might matter if people want to do regular trades on the system; thus, disincentivizing rug-pulls. There are limits to not "signed" payment methods. See this page for details.
Comparatively, I find Robosats to be much more prone to fiat chargeback / rug-pulls, because you start with a new robot token each time and there is no indication of reputation. But I've only bought on both Bisq and Robosats, never tried selling; in other words, I had always been the guy sending fiat to other people and been the side able to pull off the rug-pull / able to initiate fiat chargebacks. As such, I cannot speak to how often fiat chargebacks happen; at least I've never done it.
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31 sats \ 3 replies \ @elysia 4 Dec 2023
How could a non-Canadian theoretically use BullBitcoin to purchase non-kyc sats?
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137 sats \ 2 replies \ @gnilma 4 Dec 2023
The main criteria is to be physically in Canada, because the fiat funding is through physical cash deposit at any Canada Post post office (or you can pay with debit, but what is the point if you use debit?). You just bring your nym account QR code to the post office, tell the clerk you want to pay to this QR code, and hand them cash. The clerk usually don't ask you any questions, nor should they ask you for any ID, and you fund your account with cash, non-kyc. I did have a clerk ask me for ID once (out of probably more than 15 times), and I told her I forgot my ID at home and never went back to that post office location again. To deposit cash, you can be a Canadian, or a permanent resident, or an international student, or a visiting tourist, or an alien disguised as a human, you get the idea.
The tradeoff is deposit limit, as non-kyc cash deposits are limited to under $1k CAD per deposit and under $7k weekly. If you're a big time stacker, this might not work for you.
The following is copy and pasted from bullbitcoin's site
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31 sats \ 1 reply \ @03d88ac880 4 Dec 2023 freebie
Never thought I'd be jealous of a Canadian.
Joking aside, you know of any other services like Bull Bitcoin outside Canada?
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma 4 Dec 2023
There are always bitcoin ATMs, many of which only ask you for a phone number, and they are all over the world. However, I heard they usually sell coins at a premium, but I've never used them so I cannot deny or confirm that.
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31 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 4 Dec 2023
Good rundown. Thanks.
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300 sats \ 0 replies \ @bzzzt 4 Dec 2023
ive used it, its pretty rough in comparison to using robosats but i understand how bisq is definitely a more robust, resistant model. Until robosats is gone though...hard pressed to use bisq personally.
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31 sats \ 1 reply \ @atitlanio 4 Dec 2023 freebie
I installed bisq, but never ventured too far past there.
Robosats is great but as @gnilma mentioned there is still a KYC record happening when sending/receiving between two parties based on whatever banking app/service they use.
I've hear someone who received from a Venmo handle or whatever called like "SatStacker9000" which is just like why would you do that on a privacy focused app 😂
Nice thing about Robosats is it's all on lightning so it's fast! Bisq seems to be on-chain.
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110 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma 4 Dec 2023
Yes, Robosats is all on lightning, but they use hodl invoices to conduct the bitcoin escrow. If I'm not mistaken, Robosats also use a centralize coordinator node to hold and control these hodl invoices; so it's not an actual peer to peer exchange, putting users at rug-pull risk and also putting Robosats at regulatory risk (the centralized coordinator is an easy target and can be shut down). I think they also use a centralize order book, but I'm not 100% sure about that.
Compared to that, Bisq is as decentralized as possible. There is no centralize order book or centralize server to do escrow. Everything is done peer to peer, other than dispute resolution, which is done by Bisq mediators and arbitrators. But even during dispute resolution, the mediators can only suggest a resolution, and the arbitrators can only arbitrate which trading party to get whatever percentage of the escrowed coins; they cannot steal the coins. In other words, the rug-pull risk and regulatory risk are minimized, as they keep everything as decentralize as possible and try to do everything peer to peer (no centralize target to attack).
In the end, it comes down to trade-off. Better UI/UX+lower fees vs risk minimized+robust.
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10 sats \ 4 replies \ @designsats 4 Dec 2023
No, I prefer direct P2P, small amounts so LN-only.
Also I dont want strangers fiat or strangers UTXO. Risky.
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @legxxi 4 Dec 2023
So what do you use?
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @designsats 4 Dec 2023
Signal group :) #inviteOnly
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @legxxi 4 Dec 2023
Oki, but you still use a third party financial institution to send fiat (unless you are doing cash which I highly doubt) so your private group might be exposed at some point right?
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 4 Dec 2023
Not the group but these fiat apps regularily ban people out of pure suspicion. I expect this happening to me at some point. My body is ready to be fully unbanked
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @kristapsk 4 Dec 2023
No, although it's great project. I use HodlHodl and RoboSats.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @newnym 4 Dec 2023
I haven't used it. The order book in my currency is very small, and the smallest amounts that are available for purchase are rather large for my pocket.
I can't wait for them to implement Bisq via LN though.
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1 sat \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 4 Dec 2023
Bisq is the GOAT.
I am very surprised to see that 47% of stackers didn't even use it.
Wow... Guys you are not a real bitcoiner if you never used Bisq.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Z3r0c00l23 4 Dec 2023
I hope that if they didn't use Bisq, they used another p2p exchange to get no-kyc coins, otherwise we still have a long road ahead of us lol.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @galt 4 Dec 2023
Have tried it and didn't like it so much, not very intuitive to use I prefer LN on robosats. Also I am surprised nobody mentions their shitcoins giving lower trading fee, huge red flag to me
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @03a5308755 4 Dec 2023
Its really great, prob the most advanced and reliable p2p exchange. Unfortunately in high onchain environment not really usable for normal stacking.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Zepasta 4 Dec 2023
I dont like the fact i've to dl and install
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Z3r0c00l23 4 Dec 2023
I think 98% of all my btc has been bought through bisq
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Entrep 4 Dec 2023
I haven't used it so I can't relate
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @purpurato 4 Dec 2023
With high fees environment and no lightning it's hard to use now.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 4 Dec 2023
Have tried, but never able to get it up & running.
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