25 sats \ 9 replies \ @supertestnet 11 Dec 2023 \ on: Inscriptions: the cure is worse than the disease bitcoin
On average, if you send someone sats via a coinjoin, you use fewer bytes then if you did so without a coinjoin
This is because about 4% of an average transaction consists of the transaction version number and the locktime, and in every transaction you make you have to pay for that data. But in coinjoins this data is shared by all the coinjoiners, yielding up to 4% savings in block space compared to if all those people did the same transaction separately from one another. Coinjoins aren't just more private, they also use block space more efficiently.
Coinjoins are "anti-spam."
Perhaps one could implement a tool that uses the same mechanisms of Coinjoin, but the sole purpose being to spread the fee out across all the entries, rather than mixing.
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why not both?
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I guess based on a recent experience using Coinjoin, it seems some entities providing the service charge a large fee, which defeats the purpose trying to save on fees. I want a tool that focuses on spreading out the miner fee. But if it could be done in a way that adds privacy too, then great.
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In wasabi and samourai, the coordinator charges a fee that obliterates the savings
In joinmarket, there is no coordinator (well there sort of is, but they don't charge anything), but other people won't be part of your coinjoin unless you pay them, so your savings get eaten up by that -- unless you become a market maker, in which case you get paid to coinjoin, which is awesome
I made my own implementation of coinjoin over nostr that is similar to joinmarket except you don't have to pay people to coinjoin with you. I figure people will want to do so anyway just because it gets them free coinjoins. You can check that out here: https://github.com/brilliancebitcoin/void
However, even this one doesn't result in any fee savings for someone who is spending via a coinjoin. They don't have to pay a coordinator or the other members of the coinjoin, but the transaction fee isn't divided up among all the members. Instead, the person who hit the send button acts as the coordinator and pays the full mining fee. So they don't get a cheap transaction, they pay the full fee for a large transaction, which more than eats up their savings.
I'd like to see a coinjoin implementation where anyone can announce their intention to do a coinjoin in like 24 hours or something. Then other people can register to join it if they happen to need to send some money around the same time frame. When the time arrives, everyone gets a cheaper transaction (because they share the fee) and they also get to be in a coinjoin for free. So win win!
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I made my own implementation of coinjoin over nostr that is similar to joinmarket except you don't have to pay people to coinjoin with you.
If you look at the orderbook, there are some JoinMarket makers that don't charge any coinjoin fee, so for some amounts and number of counterparties it's possible to pay only tx fee for JM coinjoin as a taker.
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sure, why not.
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Only if you send in a coinjoin. I don't think any implementation support this
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joinmarket does
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Yes, but I believe there is room for improvements, it's possible to make it more blockspace efficient, by having multiple payments in a single coinjoin.
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