reply on: Bitcoiner and Socialist \ stacker news ~bitcoin

159 sats \ 5 replies \ @davidw 27 Jan \ on: Bitcoiner and Socialist bitcoin

I’m curious, do you not have 2 completely conflicting beliefs here?

The act of paying

I believe Bitcoin is a fair form of ownership. It can’t and should not be stolen by anyone including government.

I don’t believe it’s fair for anyone to hoard value and not give anything in return to society.

Question 1

So if the government can’t take your taxes, taxes become voluntary, or at least a far smaller expense… how do you enforce them being paid?
If the most productive people always want to minimise their expenses, they want to invest more of their tax savings into new technologies and innovations that push us forward, not subsidising stranger’s lives. How do you stop brain drain from leaving that jurisdiction? It’s happened every other place socialism has been tried.
How would you as king 039b see to it that everyone pays their “fair share” if bitcoin should never be extorted or stolen?
Or if it were more voluntary, could you not just create a company/charity and offer employment and those things to others yourself?

Attainable Standards of Living

I believe in socialism. I have a strong belief that society will work the best when everyone has able to at least have access to basic need such as food, a home, education and healthcare.

Tax is not theft. It is doing your part in helping society as a whole. The more you make, the more you pay because it has less of an impact.

Question 2

When you say access, do you also mean free? Or just that they are attainable?
Bitcoin will see to it that those things are cheaper and anyone of ability can earn bitcoin and obtain those standards. So why the need for handouts?

93 sats \ 4 replies \ @Conega OP 27 Jan

You simply have to pay tax by law.
Brain drain does not happen to great extent. Many companys will stay in a environment that helps thair business. This includes good infrastructure, educated people, good envorinment.
Tax evation is a problem. It already is, and mainy big companys have good ways of hiding tex obligations. It should just be a punnishable crime as it is today.
Tax is not voluntary. Just as stopping ad a red light. Nobody foced me to stop, but I will be caught eventually

Perhaps affordable is a better word. For the median income.
Because people will make mistakes, or simple will have bad luck that will get them in a situation they they need help. It's also far cheaper to help them then to punnish them endlessly

105 sats \ 2 replies \ @davidw 27 Jan

Thanks for replying. Helps me understand the vision & perspective of socialism.

Brain drain will always happen, if taxes are prohibitively expensive.

If they are 10% or less, the costs of evading or finding creative means of avoiding paying would not be favourable. It may just be cheaper to pay.

But I would find it hard to believe that you could achieve the standards of living you describe for all, with a 10% flat tax.

This is why in my opinion, socialism is unsustainable. When people get more and more of their life subsidised, they expect greater handouts over time, thus raising the need for higher taxes and incentivising companies and productive people to flee. Especially now those creative people can earn an incredible wage in any worldwide location.

Bitcoin achieves the same aims of socialism just by making everything else affordable again. Just like going into the 1940s and 1950s. People’s wages could easily cover a modest house.

110 sats \ 1 reply \ @ealvar26 27 Jan

Interesting case! Wouldn't it be cool to know an "optimum taxation level" but I guess there's a billion variables and we may never.

40 sats \ 0 replies \ @davidw 27 Jan

My view is we would get it if we had not just a few hundred countries but a few hundred thousand or even millions of ‘countries’ or territories.

Experiments like these would be commonplace, all with competing policies and rates of taxation. You could statistically measure the optimal rate.

Having as much choice for your country as you would when buying your car in the world. Governance can be better when it acts in private interests not public interests and acts more like a business, competing on the open market.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @justanumber 27 Jan

who says you have to pay tax by law? I guess it would depend on which country you are living in. I've seen a few people make good cases for different countries that it is actually not law and it is optional - just that everyone assumes it's law.