What will become of North Korea? \ stacker news ~earth

3329 sats \ 19 comments \ @birdeye21 1 Feb earth

Cracking this open for the geopolitical experts...

What's the likely outcome you see for NK? How will the collapse go down (or not)? How much longer does the Kim family maintain their hold? Does bitcoin play a role in freeing the country?

North Korea has always been fascinating to me, but of course very sad to see.. Would you ever visit there if you had the chance??

Also if you haven't before, got to watch this classic doc of the harlem globetrotters visiting NK. Not a simulation i swear.

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500 sats \ 4 replies \ @kepford 1 Feb

If you are interested in this topic I highly recommend reading Dear Reader: The Unauthorized Autobiography of Kim Jong Il by Michael Malice. Its a dark subject but the writer does a good job of using sarcasm to keep you reading. I can tell you that after reading this book I had a much better understanding of why every few years NK is in the news threatening the U.S. Malice stated that as a decedent of survivors of the holocaust and Stalin's purges that he wanted to shine a light on a modern day Nazi Germany state. It doesn't get enough attention.

Here are some things I remember from reading that book and from others that have studied the nation.

What's the likely outcome you see for NK?

Its just a matter of time until the regime falls but the question is how long. They have survived for so long. It is a modern day Nazi Germany.

How much longer does the Kim family maintain their hold?

The book does a good job of showing how the indoctrination works. Children are raised to believe their leader is near to a deity. That they have stood up to the evil Americans. That the U.S. wants to kill them. They have a system of ratting on each other. They have weekly community gatherings where people repent of their failings at honoring the leader, and working for the cause.

Lets say that you live there and you decided to try to escape to China. Your family would be taken to work in a concentration camp (even worse that what they do now). They may be killed. And forever, your family's decedents will be punished. Families that sided with the south are still under punishment for example.

Even those in higher status jobs are poor my western standards. Everything looks old. If you visit you will be put in a hotel where people are segregated by race. The people hate the Japanese. Malice says that if you want to get a laugh all you'd have to do is change the race of any racist joke to Japanese and you would kill. They apparently hate the Japanese with a passion.

They views people hold seem absurd to us but they are largely sheltered from the outside world and alternate views. I hear that is changing and getting harder though. I think conquest by war would be the worst possible outcome. The death and destruction would be terrible for both the north and the south. I hope that the people resist and then like the USSR, the army stand down and refuse to fight their countrymen. But who knows.

The other thing I learned from the book and Malice's talks about it is that most of what you hear on the news regarding NK is pretty much BS. Most commentators either are just paid shills for the MIC or ignorant of NK history and their culture.

33 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 1 Feb

Thank you for sharing this kep :) very interesting.

The book does a good job of showing how the indoctrination works. Children are raised to believe their leader is near to a deity. That they have stood up to the evil Americans. That the U.S. wants to kill them. They have a system of ratting on each other. They have weekly community gatherings where people repent of their failings at honoring the leader, and working for the cause.

I was just reading about KJU recently and his current dilemma. Will he continue this legacy his family left him with or try to integrate the NK people into modernization while maintaining his image?

Either way it ends in collapse i agree. I dont see a world in which he could start granting more permissions to the people without it inevitably backfiring.

They views people hold seem absurd to us but they are largely sheltered from the outside world and alternate views. I hear that is changing and getting harder though. I think conquest by war would be the worst possible outcome.

Yeah. If he granted access to the internet or some kind of communication with the outside world the truth would spiral into chaos for the north and south. And i think KJU will be quick to try and make it every other country's problem too

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 1 Feb

It help me understand how people could be programmed when Malice compared the textbooks in NK and how they describe the Dear Leader (that's what they call him) to how we were taught in U.S. schools about "honest Abe" and George Washington and the cherry tree. Or even the mythical view many have of "the founding fathers". If you can see how we are indoctrinated to believe in democracy then I think you should be able to see how an isolated people could be conditioned to support their own prison keepers.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @chairman_pretense 2 Feb

Really interesting summary, the only thing I would question is the comparison to Nazi Germany. NK doesn't really have any expansionist plans or capabilities (beyond the failed invasion of SK 70 years ago). It was born out of a civil war that resulted from Japanese Imperial occupation and the fall out of the second would war, rather than a series of corrupt democratic votes like Nazi Germany was.

Perhaps more contradictory still, NK was backed by the Soviets who had fought against Nazi Germany.

The only parallel is the level of indoctrination & authoritarianism, but I wouldn't consider those uniquely Nazi beliefs.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 2 Feb

Yeah, this wasn't the comparison I was trying to make.

107 sats \ 1 reply \ @Natalia 1 Feb

What's the likely outcome you see for NK? How will the collapse go down (or not)? How much longer does the Kim family maintain their hold? Does bitcoin play a role in freeing the country?

I don't know these answers, but one of the things that I've learned after living in a communist country is that many people don't even know what is freedom, if they haven't tasted it.

Would you ever visit there if you had the chance??

I would like to visit and talk to the locals there!

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 1 Feb

That is the problem...many there do not even understand what is being kept from them. I think the truth inevitably gets out and gets to the people though within the coming decades, and won't end well for anyone. Tech is moving too fast to keep them in the dark much longer.

Would be a great visit for some unique perspective lol

200 sats \ 1 reply \ @kurszusz 1 Feb

Interesting thing about North Korea: The country population is around 26 million, the GDP is ~$40 billion (a little bit more than $1500 / head), AND... around the 5% of GDP is "produced" by hackers... Yes...NK governemt have more than $5 billion yearly income from hacks :)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 1 Feb

honestly respectable...the hacks lead to better systems for everyone lol

145 sats \ 2 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 1 Feb

I see North Korea as a "concentration camp"

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @DEADBEEF 1 Feb

That is a very accurate description.

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 1 Feb

The largest concentration camp ever built.

88 sats \ 0 replies \ @xz 1 Feb

Tanks for sharing this Vice documentary. I enjoyed the roaring crowd in the basketball stadium most. Surreal reverberation. Interesting to watch the staging of the entire visit. I've heard other first hand accounts of visits not too dissimilar.

Sports exchanges as cultural exchanges and programs are obviously helpful. I think the problem today is with domestic media and foreign diplomatic channels, although it's very much needed to have more understanding and first-hand accounts of life, we now see media personnel being censored and restricted at home and abroad.

I wonder whether the administration having a penchant for an American cultural norm isn't just a way for a nation state to leave a light on for diplomatic dialogue whilst simultaneously signaling disinterest with dialogue in a wider context.

Could Bitcoin play some kind of part in universal freedom? I guess It's like this with most things. One can be shown a doorway and the door can be opened, but one must choose to walk through it.

44 sats \ 0 replies \ @Signal312 1 Feb

There's a lot of great books to read on North Korea, all of them by defectors. My most recent read is The Girl With Seven Names. Fascinating and sad.

45 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 1 Feb

Big disaster or big war....same as China. Nothing will change unless things get ultra bad and people revolt.

44 sats \ 0 replies \ @davidw 1 Feb

They’ll be the new manufacturing engine for China eventually, I suspect.

14 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 1 Feb

Just think about this. People escape to China... because that is how bad NK is.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @kingzing131 2 Feb

I don’t actually think it will collapse any time soon.

Have read a few books on NK escape stories and all of them show the people aren’t as stupid and indoctrinated as they think.

It’s really the fear of not knowing who to trust to even say anything negative that’s the issue.

The gov even ignored the obvious black market for one point when things were really bad.

And very few actually have any power at all to do anything. Most of those who have political power are promoted through loyal families with no bad records.

If we look at early china as an example, even during the great famine, the regime hold on power is just as strong

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 2 Feb

I've thought for a while that the Kim family basically needs to be bought out by the rest of the world. One of the big problems is that most of the scenarios that improve life in NK involve the likely deaths of the leaders (or at the very least their imprisonment), which they obviously will stop at nothing to avoid.

As distasteful as it may be, they need an offramp and that probably looks like them being assured living out the rest of their lives in luxury.