Do you own your home? \ stacker news ~econ

3437 sats \ 41 comments \ @kr 8 Feb econ freebie

I’m curious to know how many stackers own vs. rent their homes, and I’d love to hear opinions or frameworks on owning vs. renting in the comments.

Even though we’re all Bitcoiners at heart, I’m sure there are lots of people at different stages of life with different family sizes and different priorities, and am interested in hearing how they think about the trade-offs of buying Bitcoin vs. buying real estate.

The trade-offs don’t have to be purely financial either, I’m also interested in hearing about psychological/peace of mind effects of holding a lot of wealth in bitcoin vs. real estate.

Yes43.8%

No29.7%

Nice try, Fed26.6%

64 votes \ poll ended

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1310 sats \ 5 replies \ @Undisciplined 8 Feb

As of a couple of years ago, I think it made sense to get a mortgage and let inflation erode it away. Now, I think it's probably worth waiting until the other side of the crash to look for screaming bargains.

596 sats \ 4 replies \ @kr OP 8 Feb freebie

makes sense, part of me is skeptical that the bargains will truly be screaming as so many people have been trained to buy a house because it’s “a great investment” or something like that.

if we look at the rise and fall of different asset classes, is it typical for assets to fall as fast as they rise? my guess is that the fall is often slower and more drawn out, but i could be wrong.

it also could be that home prices slowly decrease in fiat terms, but come crashing down in bitcoin terms.

1753 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 8 Feb

I think price falls tend to be very steep during economic corrections, while rises tend to be gradual and drawn out.

During the last housing crisis, there were 70%+ price declines in some markets. Keep your powder dry.

57 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr OP 8 Feb

good point

270 sats \ 1 reply \ @joda 9 Feb

I'm not certain home prices will come crashing down in Bitcoin terms. I think Bitcoin could lose value during a housing crash, as it probably coincides with a recession, job losses, and the need to get some cash (by selling).

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 9 Feb

That's a good point, especially with so much being held in these ETF's now.

1270 sats \ 5 replies \ @antic 8 Feb

Even those of us who “own” a home are just renting it from the government.

121 sats \ 4 replies \ @kr OP 8 Feb

very true, in more ways than one.

governments are often the holders of the mortgages people have, and then even after the mortgage is paid off there is still a property tax burden forever.

46 sats \ 3 replies \ @joda 9 Feb

But they acquired all this land fair-and-square on our behalf, so it makes sense, right?

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @john_doe 9 Feb freebie

The use of the land reminds me of the use of the sky. The sky also has been "acquired" on our behalf, however I am still puzzled to understand why where I live I need to pay a fee every 5 years to fly and send radio waves. Then I wonder if this "acquisition" of the part of the land and the part of the air I breath at regular intervals should be taxed for "security" reasons or for "fairness". Particularly, given these legislations change with time and can vary depending on the country, I feel tempted to question these past and new rules for taxation.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @joda 9 Feb

God help you if you find something of value in the dirt on your land...

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @john_doe 10 Feb

Dirt, I won't find. Help, God will. Understand you will, Mr Yoda.

978 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheFish 8 Feb

A couple of reasons I own my home (rent the land from the government annually).

Principal residence where I live are free from capital gains tax, and for now normal people are very comfortable storing value in real estate.
A stable residence for my family is invaluable for the development of my children. We homeschool, we garden, we own chickens, and we love where we live. I would feel uncomfortable giving someone else control over where I live.

Cheers

963 sats \ 0 replies \ @037447d9ca 8 Feb

I don't even own my chairs.

937 sats \ 3 replies \ @oliverweiss 8 Feb

No, I wouldn’t mind but I would need to take a mortgage which I am refusing to do at this point. You know, this is the way banks create new bad money in the system, and I am not going to support them :)

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @jeff 9 Feb

What do you mean by "bad" money? Is it not fungible?

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @02bcd3eeb0 9 Feb

Bank credit is only fungible in good times. When you get a Greece, Lebanon, Cypress, etc. suddenly the "money" in a bank account is not so fungible

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @oliverweiss 9 Feb

All fiat money is bad :)

937 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheWildHustle 8 Feb

Discovered Bitcoin-> Saved in Bitcoin-> Bought a condo

I'm pretty close to living on a bitcoin standard, housing prices will drop forever.....

Was thinking i'd payoff the condo and rent it to a bitconer at a discount for sats

Hopefully i'll find a nice house in El Salvador near the beach, keep a couple of remote jobs (hopefully one of which would be in bitcoin) raise a strong family and continue the hero's journey down the rabbit hole.

675 sats \ 0 replies \ @DudeJLebowski 9 Feb

I used to, but sold that shit and bought Bitcoin instead.

675 sats \ 1 reply \ @KeynesianClowns 9 Feb

Do you really "own" your home if you have to pay property taxes indefinitely?

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr OP 9 Feb

you’re right. we need a better term for this, ideally something shorter and more catchy than “renting from the government”

94 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryotosensei 9 Feb

I don’t think we are given much of a choice in Singapore. The system is such that we buy a lease from the public housing market that enables us to own a flat for up to 99 years. We do have 1-room or 2-room rental flats, but I think it’s reserved only for families whose income levels are significantly below the median income

I finished paying my mortgage within five years. I don’t care if the housing loan is considered good debt. I just hate enslaved to any form of debt lol

69 sats \ 2 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 9 Feb

Yes. I need a place for my family but it’s a BAD investment, don’t be fooled!

I priced out my house and then the value it went up in fiat price (68% increase since we bought in 2015), BUT adjusted for inflation only went up 10%, AND that is offset by taxes, repairs, maintenance, time, etc. So I’m net negative %25 in real terms. NOT up 68%.

Now compare that to if I had that money in Bitcoin. Bitcoin was up 19,000% since i bought in 2015!!!!

Note: I used 25% as the cumulative fiat inflation rate since 2015. In real terms we know it’s even higher than the government numbers

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @joda 9 Feb

You would have needed to pay for rent though (of course in retrospect you may have chosen a tent and Bitcoin rather than rent and no Bitcoin)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 9 Feb

Rent is WAY cheaper when looking at total costs. Repairs, taxes, etc

69 sats \ 2 replies \ @hodlpleb 9 Feb

As I've grown into home ownership + bitcoin, I've realized what a phenomenal scam property taxes are. It's much better to have a rental that covers all the costs, but it is so wild to think about - you have to pay the government thousands of dollars every year for the right to own property.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @joda 9 Feb

Governments need money somehow, and taxing is more honest than printing. Some places are outrageous though, like Jersey.

The flip side is the deductions you get with an investment property.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @hodlpleb 9 Feb

My uncle said in the time he lived in his old house, he paid off the mortgage, and then paid that same amount again in property tax 😵

46 sats \ 0 replies \ @southside263 9 Feb

paying mortgage - prefer to control where our young kids go to school and not be at mercy of landlord moving you on anytime.

moving sucks 😂

23 sats \ 0 replies \ @030e0dca83 9 Feb

It's hard to explain, cause here's a war in my country and I'm living in a forest. However if I'll be able I'll buy a house when this nightmare will be ended

69 sats \ 0 replies \ @deyner1984 9 Feb

Yes, i do own my own house. After buying it, my brain removed itself like 10 tons of stressing garbage i had during several years. Lived on rented places and was really hard to deal with owners and although i managed myself to deliver monthly payments for rent on time it was ALWAYS a worrying thing knowing you´re living in a place it´s not yours to do whatever you want.

Before kids came, me and my wife decided to save at big for years to buy our current house so our kids could enjoy a more stable place ...and paint the house walls without any problem ;)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @john_doe 9 Feb

I am still in the process to find a right place to Iive in and to figure out a defined plan for a house. Once I will have visited the Great Pyramids, Machu Pichu, the Bitcoin conference 2024 and did a couple of other things I will be ready to think about buying a home.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 9 Feb

California housing is ludicrous expensive

1547 sats \ 1 reply \ @shado_op 8 Feb

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112 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr OP 8 Feb

good point, i used to look at all these trade offs through a strictly financial lens, but am starting to appreciate that people have psychological needs that can’t easily be quantified too.

that being said, i think there is also a different cohort of people who get the same peace of mind from holding an asset nobody can seize.

952 sats \ 4 replies \ @brandonsbytes 8 Feb

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418 sats \ 3 replies \ @kr OP 8 Feb

if i didn’t add it in there, @siggy47 would have said it in the first comment 😅