I’ve been looking into land usage recently, and i just realized i have no idea why everyone has front and back lawns.
Pretty much every house in the neighborhood I grew up in had lawns taking up 50-70% of the space on their property, and the lawn area almost never gets any use. Not considering those living in apartments or townhouses, this 50%+ lawn layout seems to be pretty typical for most North American homes (I understand this isn’t typical in Europe).
I could see how a family dog or kids would enjoy playing in the backyard lawn for an hour or two each day, but this is relatively little usage compared to the rest of the house, and the front yard almost never gets that same usage.
So why do we waste all this space on our property, filling it up with patches of grass we can’t eat (and rarely get to enjoy)? Especially as home prices continue to get more expensive…
And considering most people don’t get much value from their lawn, why does everyone put so much money and effort into watering, maintaining, pruning, and fertilizing their lawn? Is it all just a status-signaling game?
As a possible solution, why isn’t it normal to convert one’s lawn into a garden that can at least supply you with fresh fruit, vegetables, and eggs? This was strongly encouraged in WW1 and WW2, so there is precedent here.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr OP 14 Feb
informative and hilarious, well done sir 🤠
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1000 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 14 Feb
There was rationing during WW1 and WW2 and the Great Depression.
There is a Supreme Court case, Fillburn: FDR sued a farmer for growing his own food (I forget which crop). His justification was that one farmer distorted crop prices
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The crop was wheat. Wickard was secretary of agriculture. Filburn was a farmer
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@kr I think you'd enjoy learning about permaculture. They call it food forests. Designing your property to produce life and also be beautiful. Basically a more systematic approach to gardening in the case you describe. We have some fruit trees in our yard and a few herbs. Also a garden.
The reason many want large yards is for a buffer from neighbors. The space to entertain. It is nice to have a large enough space to have outdoor parties. Also it is a status symbol for some. Others want the space for their pets. We really enjoy our yard. Spend a lot of time relaxing in it. We have a lot of trees and because of that many birds that are fun to watch. It helps us stay connected to the natural world.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr OP 14 Feb
“Food forests” has a nice ring to it.
I think having a couple of plants in a garden would also improve social connections between neighbors for many people in the suburbs (who often commute and are rarely at home).
When you realize you have way too many tomatoes for your family to eat, you can just share them with your neighbors and that can be an easy way to get to know them better.
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What is most interesting to me is how permaculture is a way of systematic thinking and designing systems for resilience and sustainability using many methods that come for native peoples and nature. I've learned a lot of cool stuff going down that rabbit hole.
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I remember watching an Adam Curtis documentary (if you haven't every seen his work check it out) about the history of Islamic terrorism. I might get some of the details wrong but basically there was this Egyptian guy who came the U.S. in the 50s-60s and he was appalled by our culture. He had many beefs but the one that really surprised me was with lawns. I have never thought about lawns the same since. It was the essence of decadence to him. That people had so much wealth that the could afford to spend so much time, money, and care on grass. That they were so obsessed with appearances. He found it revolting. I'll try to find the documentary because it is one of his best ones (Adam Curtis)
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33 sats \ 5 replies \ @kr OP 14 Feb
would be interested in that doc.
i wonder if lawn usage is a totally normal thing for US immigrants to ponder, it must be strange to see for those coming from places where homes are more densely built 🤔
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591 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 14 Feb
It was in this one, The Power of Nightmares. Seriously one of the better series. I do not believe Curtis's documentaries ever air in the U.S. but they should. I appreciate his perspective.
The guy I was thinking of was Sayyid Qutb and I believe he is discussed in the first episode " Baby It’s Cold Outside". You can send me some sats after you watch his stuff ;)
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Its on YT as well. What he really hits in this series is how politicians use fear to gain power. Basically they have run out of ideas and depend on nightmares to gain power.
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To me it is much less about the land usage and more about the time and money investment. Gardens are very common in many cultures. But we really focus on the lawn.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr OP 14 Feb
i guess it depends on what types of plants are in a garden, but i’d imagine the time commitment to maintain a garden would be roughly the same as a lawn, no?
still necessary to do all the watering and weeding, and while gardens don’t need regular cuts, they do need to be harvested.
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Yeah, one aspect of permaculture is designing systems that do not fight nature. All plants serve a purpose, even "weeds". Its a very fascinating approach and way of thinking. I guess U.S. lawns are our culture's gardens.
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Oh I agree with you. It is very arrogant. Just as the U.S. idea of they hate us for our freedom is arrogant. Nah, they hated how the U.S. culture was invading their culture and our military was invading their lands. That's what they hated.
It is fascinating to see the direct opposition in cultures though. I just found the perspective fascinating. We so seldom get alternative views on things we do not even notice. Many, maybe most Americans seem to have no desire to truly understand why other cultures view us the way they do. Who is right is a totally different thing. That said, I do value the American attitude of "I don't care what you think".
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Exactly. I think of that fish / water thing pretty often.
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there are studies on this! lawns arise as a symbol of wealth. In subsistence cultures, the well-to-do made a living without having to scramble for food. To show off that they didn't need to use the space productively, they planted lawns, and well.visible ones. It's a status symbol showcasing literal waste.
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr OP 14 Feb
ahh makes sense. i think that’s the source of the weird european shoes royals used to wear too.
i think the idea was something like “look at me, my shoes are so uncomfortable that there’s no way i could possibly be a poor laborer working on my feet all day”
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yes! all the impractical, puffy clothing does the same thing. "Look, I can't do anything in this! But no matter, they literally feed and carry me"
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Many local cities, and even HOA's prohibit any form of vegetable or fruit in the front yard. Many such citations and lawsuits.
As for your back yard. US Regulations can also be weaponized against any citizen, because having a garden and producing your own produce - you are disrupting commerce, by not participating in commerce.. You may also be altering waterways, or hoarding rain-water with catch-barrels. Land of the free! <Insert Drooling+Dented brain picture here>
Assuming property ownership was a reality - I'm glad people can use the land in anyway they see fit. As long as the property owner is able to do this while not directly & adversely affecting neighbors (odors, pests, runoff). If you can afford the water bill, or have your own well - do what ever TF you want. Just the same as you likely see Bitcoin as a valid use of electricity.
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HOAs are such an annoying thing. In principle it makes sense that there is a private arrangement about a neighborhood for the sake of property values. But the way HOAs sometimes become overregulating pseudogovernments with huge fines preventing people from actually owning their own property.
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You fucking moron! What the hell is wrong with you? Are you seriously complaining about people growing their own food in their own goddamn yards? And now you're talking about some bullshit about regulations and waterways? Get a life, you pathetic loser! If someone wants to grow vegetables or fruits in their front yard, let them! It's none of your goddamn business! And as for the water bill, who gives a flying fuck? If people can afford it, let them use their resources however they please! You're just another ignorant, close-minded prick who thinks he knows everything. Fuck off and leave people alone to live their lives the way they want to!
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380 sats \ 0 replies \ @Fabs 14 Feb
What's wrong with ya?! Try to understand where he's going at before you start typing.
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FFS.. I HAVE green grass, and love it. Read my 2nd sentence: "... I'm glad people can use the land in anyway they see fit."
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Chill the fuck out.
I'm ADVOCATING FOR people to do whatever they want with their property. Including having wasteful green grass.
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He lacks reading comprehension lol
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I grew up in a small mountain town where only a handful of houses had lawns. I'm going to guess that they're a vestige of when homes used to have their own grazing animals. The animals are gone, but the aesthetic has persisted.
Now, I live in a suburban neighborhood that's all lawns. I'm trying to gradually convert ours into flower beds and gardens, but with our HOA I have to do it very incrementally.
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28 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr OP 14 Feb
I'm going to guess that they're a vestige of when homes used to have their own grazing animals. The animals are gone, but the aesthetic has persisted.
I think this theory makes sense. Is it legal to have chickens on your property with your HOA setup?
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We're not allowed to have chickens. It's one of the main reasons that we're open to moving.
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  • Space, don't want to be right up against your neighbor's home or the road
  • Option to enjoy the space or use it for entertaining
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 14 Feb
Consider the lowly driveway that pretty much everyone needs. What do you do with all the land to the side(s) of the driveway? May not be a lawn but it’s an inevitable area.
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1365 sats \ 5 replies \ @grayruby 14 Feb
Front lawn is purely aesthetic. Back lawn is for dog and kids. Lots of usage. I suppose if you eliminated front lawns you could build multi family shoeboxes instead of single family homes on the same lot but then people would live in multi family shoe boxes.
Just move out of the city.
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20 sats \ 3 replies \ @kr OP 14 Feb
i’d imagine the ratio of lawn space to total property space is even higher as one ventures out of the city.
i’m thinking about a small suburb for example where people don’t quite own farms, but their lawns require sitting mowers for regular maintenance.
i don’t mean to say lawns shouldn’t exist at all, just that the ratio of land usage to total benefit seems to be way off for most people. likely even more “off” in the suburbs than on downtown city streets.
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But obviously people don't wish to move to these places or the housing would be getting bid up and people with huge lots would sell off their properties or part of their land for development if there was enough economic incentive. Trying to maximize the ratio of land usage to total benefit to force the market to demand shoeboxes is pretty much just communism.
Maybe communism is a stretch but trying to solve a housing crisis caused by fiat money and government intervention with more government intervention is like trying to solve your heroin addiction by switching to meth.
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20 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr OP 14 Feb
is a shoebox a small home in your view? or one that juts right up against a neighbor’s property?
if it’s the former, suburb homes could expand their footprint rather than subdivide and shrink their overall land size.
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No, small homes are great.
I consider condos and townhomes to be shoeboxes.
My point is who gets to decide what is the optimal use of land and who gives them the authority. If the market demands condos and townhomes because they are more affordable then so be it. If the market is incentivizing people with huge lots to subdivide so be it, but I don't like the idea of "we are the government and we are here to fix housing for you".
How the government solves housing crises:
"The concept of communal apartments grew in Russia and the Soviet Union as a response to a housing crisis in urban areas; authorities presented them as the product of the 'new collective vision of the future'.
Multi family shoeboxes are terrible for property values
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Generations of building new buildings in already cleared pasture, we equate it in our genetic memory as "the hometead".
It wasn't a problem with 1/8th the population, when every inch powered livestock. Now they are, in most cases, but a comforting souvenir from a different time.
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745 sats \ 1 reply \ @MikeB 14 Feb
The lawn hate is so trendy but they are fantastic. If you own a bit of land then a lawn is a very useful thing - kids, dogs, sports, etc all benefit. If you don't mow you will end up with pasture, which can be OK but still needs a lot of work to keep free of things like burdock, wild parsnip and other undesirables taking over. If you do nothing, you will end up with land that is truly not of any use and looks bad.
If you live in the burbs and only have a postage stamp then maybe it's a waste but the idea that your land should be productive is a strange one. You as the owner make it productive with lots of effort so a trade-off is made. If you own a couple acres or more you likely will not want it all to be "productive" but will want it attractive and easy to keep that way.
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yeah i don’t mean to say no lawn should ever exist, just that we seem to put an absurd amount of our resources into them.
if a home costs $1m, and 50% of it is a lawn, shouldn’t the home owner start wondering why they need all that empty space?
it doesn’t have to be a garden that replaces the lawn either, maybe it’s just an ADU or extra room added to the house.
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615 sats \ 0 replies \ @stooge 14 Feb
I'm all for biodiversity (I love real prairies ) But lawns are beautiful and easier to maintain than a prairie.
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355 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bass 14 Feb
the french royals wanted to show just how stupid rich and pompous they were, so they took the typical utility of land and purposely made it uselessly aesthetically pleasing. It caught on because of pride and fomo, and here we are centuries later... if it seems stupid, it was more than likely the french. Never trust the french, trust me, i'm french ;)
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Well, I would say that this is quite common in Europe especially in the central and east parts, and in rural regions; were used for gardening in the past but not that much anymore. I guess, Asian countries are the total opposite. Once I was telling my Japanese friend about my back then new apartment that had some 44m2 and he was like ‘why do you need so big place?’, lol.
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355 sats \ 1 reply \ @nout 14 Feb
You need the front lawn to attract kids so you can yell at them "get off my lawn" when you get old. Circle of life.
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😂
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355 sats \ 1 reply \ @jgbtc 14 Feb
  1. Growing vegetables is a lot of work and I don't currently have time for that. Id rather just buy them at a farm stand or at the store.
  2. An overgrown lawn looks awful and I take pride in the way my house looks including the lawn.
  3. I don't do anything other than mow. No fertilizer, watering, etc. So it's not a big time/money sink.
  4. My kids play in both the front and back yards.
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yeah, growing vegetables at home will likely never be as cheap as buying them from a store, though they will taste better and could be a fun project for those who want to divert time to it
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355 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 14 Feb
My mother in law has lived her whole life in rural China. The first question she asked when visiting Australia was "why aren't they growing vegetables?"
I guess for some neighborhoods they like the look of a nice green grass out the front of the house. It is a symbol of wealth I guess, but I don't think people think that deeply about it. They are just doing what everyone around them does.
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Gardens are ongoing maintenance too, that some would find worth it and some wouldn't. I'm just surprised so few don't find it worth it. I'd think that it would at least be more popular to lay down sand and pebbles and ponds and cactus gardens and dirt paths and bushes and trees that don't require much upkeep, instead of the common swaths of... grass
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My answer to your initial question, at least as it pertains to front lawns, is that in America we afford drive-by shooters a sporting chance.
As for backyards, I must point you to the high-ranking that barbecue has among our favorite and patriotic pastimes.
In all seriousness though, the unused real estate between dwelling structures gives a sense of autonomy and privacy and power ("look at the land I own!"). I would venture to guess that the reason we do not convert our lawns into gardens often enough is because we clasp onto that image of traditional real estate wealth, and a very practical reason: gardening takes time and skill and an attention span that we have been willing to forfeit.
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305 sats \ 0 replies \ @jasonb 14 Feb
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I don't know, but I like my lawn! I like taking care of it.
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Lawns are the least maintenance option. Grass roots hold dirt in place to prevent soil erosion and dust in the air. Maintaining a lower relative temperature than the heat island effect of paving yards with concrete. Lawns are the worst option in terms of addressing climate change storing lowest quantities of carbon per acre/hectare. Thanks to globalism and offshoring of agricultural labor, we've enjoyed historically low food production costs for consecutive decades. There was not much incentive to consider repurposing land for food production purposes. But perhaps with recent market shifts, we may see a more widescale reexamination of our chosen cultural norms.
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Lawns provide a nice little bit of privacy between you and your neighbors.
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counterpoint: bocce makes for great lawn fun, and can be played on almost all lawns
imo canadians and americans should consider adopting bocce as a national sport and pivoting away from the surging interest in pickleball.
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Oh, shut the fuck up already! Who the hell cares about your stupid lawns and gardens? You're just another self-absorbed asshole trying to find meaning in something as trivial as landscaping. Why don't you focus on more important issues instead of whining about your goddamn front and back yards? People spend their hard-earned money on these properties, and if they want to maintain a beautiful lawn or grow some damn fruits and veggies, that's their business. So stop judging others and mind your own fucking business!
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Why don't you focus on more important issues instead of whining about your goddamn front and back yards?
can you send me the approved list of issues i am allowed to talk about on this website?
thanks in advance
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bitcoin, beets, bears
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12 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr OP 14 Feb
bitcoin, beets, bears
need to step up my beet game
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr OP 14 Feb
that’s fair, i suppose once these “pieces” have been divvied up, it would also take an incredible amount of community conviction to re-design all the homes in a neighborhood even if people did decide they no longer wanted lawns
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One interesting thing is this is a destructive practice on your lawn if you mow too much and don't allow the grass to stay long.
that is interesting, sounds like a consequence of not having livestock to fertilize and maintain good grass growth cycles
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