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There Is Successful Governance Outside of State Power

3170 sats \ 12 comments \ @Undisciplined 15 Feb libertarian

There Is Successful Governance Outside of State Power

"Government" and "state" are terms typically used synonymously these days. But good governance and good law do not require the presence of the state and its monopoly power.

This is the fundamental point libertarians are attempting to make to people. Statists wrongly assume that we support all of the behaviors that they seek to restrict with state action. In reality, we often share their aversion to those behaviors, but understand that there are more humane and effective ways of dealing with them than systematically threatening, assaulting, and kidnapping those who partake.

This is also why leftwing "anarchists" hate libertarians. They support the chaotic violence that we're trying to peacefully curb.

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472 sats \ 8 replies \ @ek 15 Feb

Oh, did you go down the path of gaming engagement by creating discussion posts instead of link posts with context? ;)

But well, if so, you won. You got my engagement with this quote:

This is also why leftwing "anarchists" hate libertarians. They support the chaotic violence that we're trying to peacefully curb.

Damn. I don't necessarily agree with this statement but this reminded me of a friend I used to go to concerts with. She was a "big lefty" and the concerts we went to were from bands that were also aligned with the left political spectrum.¹ I considered myself also to be left oriented back then.² One conversation with her never went out of my mind:

On the train to a concert, I was talking to her about some protests she went to (Antifa). She mentioned that they sometimes set fire to cars. When I asked why they are doing it, she just replied: Because it's fun!

I don't remember how the conversation continued after that.

I still don't know if that was just her trying to be funny or if she was being serious. She was a nice girl though and fun to hang out with. I really liked her. I also miss her, I think. She was quite funny sometimes.

Schmutzki for example ↩
Now I don't know what I am. But I also don't really care. ↩

529 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 15 Feb

To be clear, I'm not saying they all like that kind of violent activism, although it's not uncommon. If you press them on how they envision society functioning in the absence of the state, they generally believe in someone violently enforcing their communist ideals.

That's why I put "anarchist" in quotes. They aren't actually anarchists. They just want to be the ones ruling.

446 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 15 Feb

I see, I figured you meant something like this.

The old tale of "I want freedom for everyone but only on my terms".

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 16 Feb

Free dumb

507 sats \ 4 replies \ @SimpleStacker 15 Feb

Oh, did you go down the path of gaming engagement by creating discussion posts instead of link posts with context? ;)

How does this game engagement? Are link posts treated differently on the backend than discussion posts? Or are users more likely to ignore link posts?

On the train to a concert, I was talking to her about some protests she went to (Antifa). She mentioned that they sometimes set fire to cars. When I asked why they are doing it, she just replied: Because it's fun!

Dang... what if that car belonged to some poor worker who needs it for their daily commute? This just reinforces the stereotype that antifa are just hooligans and hypocrites

558 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 15 Feb

Or are users more likely to ignore link posts?

That one

Dang... what if that car belonged to some poor worker who needs it for their daily commute?

I was at antiwar protests during the Bush years and that complete disregard for everyone around them is what put me off of this portion of the left.

128 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 16 Feb

Which Bush? Which Iraq war?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 16 Feb

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 16 Feb

The stereotype is not true?

456 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 16 Feb freebie

I've harped on this for a long time and it is one reason I don't use either labels of anarchist or libertarian any more to describe myself. People bring a lot of baggage around with them and do not know what I mean by words so I do not give them labels so they can just easily sort me.

Governance does not assume a state with a monopoly on the use of violence. Governance and law predate the state but the population has been so dumbed down intentionally that few know this.

33 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined OP 16 Feb

I don't mind using those labels here, because stackers are smart enough to understand these things (usually). However, I also don't lead with labels normally and for the same reasons you gave.

If pressed for a label, I offer the unfamiliar "voluntaryist", because people don't have any associations with it yet.

446 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 16 Feb

Yep, I have done the same. When it it is new they are more likely to ask follow up questions. Most people really don't care that much about the deeper issues I have found. They don't care about philosophy and principles. Especially those wrapped up in politics. The mostly care about "winning" which really is meaningless for most people but they don't see that.

There Is Successful Governance Outside of State Power

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