The non-democratic roots of mass education: evidence from 200 years \ stacker news ~charts

The non-democratic roots of mass education: evidence from 200 years

2215 sats \ 43 comments \ @oliverweiss 5 Mar charts

States intervened in primary education some 100 years before democratization. Primary education became compulsory still before democratization.

Well, educating children didn’t turn well for the non-democratic states. This also explains why education is not a central focus of many govts these days.

source paper

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31 sats \ 4 replies \ @0b1CoinObi 5 Mar

Interesting fact that under UK law the parent is responsible for the childs education, not the state. If you want to home educate that's your choice or you can send them to a state education facility. Things are not so free in Germany and Sweden, where your child must attend state education and home education is illegal. Forcing parents who want to HE to move out of the country. Those in Sweden who refuse to send them to school and HE in that country, will have their children taken away.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @arrivederci 6 Mar

Things are not so free in Germany and Sweden, where your child must attend state education and home education is illegal.

State education (in its modern form) is a Prussian invention, so not surprising that Germany is like that. (You can see in the submitted chart that Germany is the first to pass a compulsory primary education law.)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

https://nypost.com/2024/03/02/us-news/oklahoma-teens-lick-each-others-toes-at-school-sanctioned-event-video-shows/

Does this happen in Germany?

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @oliverweiss OP 5 Mar

I read about a family moving out of Sweden for exactly this reason. Crazy.

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @0b1CoinObi 5 Mar

It is crazy, lots and lots of swedes have left and live in other EU countries (& travel the world) that are more HE tolerant. Other fun fact, and it's not Friday, it was Hitler who outlawed Home Education in Germany and that law still stands.

21 sats \ 25 replies \ @kepford 5 Mar

Because primary education is often conceptualized as a pro-poor redistributive policy, a common argument is that democratization increases its provision. But primary education can also serve the goals of autocrats, including redistribution, promoting loyalty, nation-building, and/or industrialization. To examine the relationship between democratization and education provision empirically, I leverage new datasets covering 109 countries and 200 years. Difference-in-differences and interrupted time series estimates find that, on average, democratization had no or little impact on primary school enrollment rates. When unpacking this average null result, I find that, consistent with median voter theories, democratization can lead to an expansion of primary schooling, but the key condition under which it does—when a majority lacked access to primary schooling before democratization—rarely holds. Around the world, state-controlled primary schooling emerged a century before democratization, and in three-fourths of countries that democratized, a majority already had access to primary education before democratization.

From the limited study I have done on the history of public education in the U.S. this holds true.

primary education can also serve the goals of autocrats, including redistribution, promoting loyalty, nation-building, and/or industrialization.

It is said that the U.S. copied the Prussian model with the goal in instilling both patriotism(which was strong when I was in school), and compliance. These both benefited the titans of industry as well as the military machine.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 8 Mar

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/richard-lamm-on-multiculturalism/

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @21millioins 6 Mar

where can I look for more info? the prussian model in particular

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 6 Mar

You can check out this short video for a good summary of the US adoption and a bit about the model.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 6 Mar

Its been a while but I will try to find a could resource.

0 sats \ 20 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

Today public schools and some private teach the opposite of patriotism, anti American propaganda such as the 1619 project

21 sats \ 4 replies \ @kepford 6 Mar

I'm going to explain something because I hear this kind of response from conservatives that are still clinging to some nostalgic view of the past. They think that the indoctrination we see in government education is something new. That is is a conspiracy of the left alone. The don't realize the commonality between the left and right. They don't realize that the past was far more Marxist than they have been told.

This is a common response that misses the point. Of course there are anti-patriotic messages being pushed. Of course there are Marxists ideals being promoted in government classrooms. This is not the point. The point is that so called public education is not primarily for the improvement of the individuals. Its primary function is conditioning and training the masses to behave in certain ways. Because most people have no clue about the origins of government schools in the US and the reasons behind that, they have this naive view that if we could just reform them we'd be OK. If we could just vote in the right board members we'd be good.

Indeed government education is run by statists. Some are more Marxist than others. Many would reject this classification but that's mostly a show. When you look at the university systems they are dominate by leftist ideology. Even the right wingers in it are statists as well. Here's the thing though. Its a system. These people believe they are doing "god's work". They believe in democracy. They believe in whatever they believe. The objection conservatives make is to CONTENT. They want to indoctrinate the children with their message. When a conservative starts complaining about government schools I often bring up the history of schooling. They reject it because they know a teacher and they were a good person. I do as well. Again, this misses the point. There are many well meaning people that are a part of larger system that produces results they don't even realize. I can point to good teachers and bad teachers. But in many cases the best teachers quit due to frustration with the education system. They usually do so because they are being forced to do things in ways they do not agree with.

The government education system in the US when you observe it is like a factory. It re-enforces obedience, compliance, and a schedule above all else. It discourages individual thought and expression. In the past if someone was in a classroom and was anti-war (maybe from a left wing angle) they would be shut down. They were against the status quo. Now education's direction has changed. Now those that express anti-establishment views are shut down but they are coming from a different angle.

This is the beauty of the system as it stands. It pits left vs. right but no matter what. The state wins. So, don't get distracted by the current outrage about teachers. The whole system is rotten. It is beyond reform. Those that run it are coming from it. They believe in it. Many private schools are little better.

Here's the point.

"Only a fool would let his enemy teach his children."

~ Malcom X

I recommend watching this short video on the origins of government education in the U.S.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

Your criticism of conservatives is consistent with your criticism of RFK and Trump, comparing neoconservatives with Islamic terrorists.

It’s a false equivalence. Completely dishonest. Fake objectivity, a shill for left wing politicians and policies.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

You spend a lot of time blaming conservatives for institutions controlled by the left.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

Video: if you attend a German school you will become a Nazi.

Why did America adopt the Prussian school system? Because we want to become the third Reich.

Nazi warning system activated

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

Public school teachers unions are relatively new, circa 1965.

That’s a major change since Horace Mann.

The average IQ for college students today is 102.

In 1939 average IQ was 117 for college students.

The bar for attending college is much lower today.

0 sats \ 14 replies \ @oliverweiss OP 6 Mar

Why should patriotism be taught at all? North Korea, Russia, China do so, and these are the countries you probably don’t want to live in, or?

0 sats \ 10 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

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0 sats \ 9 replies \ @oliverweiss OP 6 Mar

Is it written in my post that it is these three countries only? Do I say it is barometer of anything? Be honest, would you live there?

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

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0 sats \ 7 replies \ @oliverweiss OP 6 Mar

Just asking.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

That’s not an answer.

What’s the point of your question?

reply on another page

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

Why ?

reply on another page

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

You asked me twice. Why so persistent?

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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @oliverweiss OP 6 Mar

Your assumption is wrong.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 6 Mar

It’s not an assumption.

99 percent of academia is left wing.

80 of teachers are left wing.

Public school teachers unions are the biggest donors to D party

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 5 Mar

This also explains why education is not a central focus of many govts these days

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? Are you suggesting governments do not manage, control, and fund government education in many governments? Where is the state not involved in education (other than extremely poor nations)?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @oliverweiss OP 6 Mar

The states I have in mind still do manage school, regulate educational systems, even rule what children are taught, what books are allowed, often terribly outdated stuff. But government education is very underfunded there. If you look at European states from the postsoviet block, education didn’t change much from that time. And there is no interest in changing that on the state level.