Retire on bitcoin? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

2513 sats \ 25 comments \ @dk 10 Mar bitcoin

I've had a few people recently ask for my advice on how to think about "retiring on bitcoin". I hadn't thought too much about this before, but there seems to be an emerging niche of people who suspect based on their current bitcoin stack and growth assumptions they should be able to "retire on bitcoin" now or soon. In these discussions people expect to meet their cash needs by either 1) selling a small portion of their stack regularly or 2) borrowing fiat collateralized by their stack.

It seems like a fairly complicated question to model properly though: e.g., What are your cash needs today and how do you expect that to change in the future? What are your bitcoin growth assumptions? What kinds of drawdowns/bear-markets do you expect to sustain? How much buffer should you build in to ensure you are resilient?

Any links to good writing or calculators to help think through these considerations? What other factors do you Stackers think should be considered?

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77 sats \ 3 replies \ @orthwyrm 10 Mar

I don't think I'd borrow fiat. I get why one would do this, it's tax efficient. But I don't like the idea of perpetuating the fiat game, nor giving custody of my coins to some entity who can rug me.

If / when Bitcoin reaches a bajillion cuckbucks, I suppose I'd stop working as much as I do currently. I'd slowly sell off my stack to pay expenses, and leave the remainder for my kids. If nobody works, the stack dwindles to zero, as it should do in any fair system.

No yeild hunting silliness, no retiring forever and ever off of the backs of others like the FIRE guys dream of with their 4% rule. Save money, spend money.

92 sats \ 2 replies \ @carlosfandango 10 Mar

I always try and remember ‘there ain’t no free lunch’. I know Saylor talks about lending out BTC but it’s just financialisation of an asset that was supposed to show a new way. I’m for disrupting the system, not perpetuating it.

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @orthwyrm 10 Mar

Yes.

Even outside the context of Bitcoin, it makes me increasingly uncomfortable. For example, getting a mortgage on a property, taking out a car loan, etc.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @carlosfandango 10 Mar

I push my debt ceiling pretty hard out of necessity. I would rather not however!

249 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 10 Mar

You "retire" only when you don't need to work anymore to stack more sats. That means you calculate how much time you think it remain to live and how much +morf or less) you will spend from that stash a simple normal life, in peace.

I did that (stop working a job) in 2019. But I worked hard stacking many years. I also worked hard onto how to live on bitcoin standard, surtounding me of people that accept my sats for products and services. That was a long way and dedication for years. Yes, I do not have anymore bank accounts, from 2018 in fact. I pay only with btc.

That's why I have time now to dedicate me 100% only to bitcoin education. I work for Bitcoin success now. This is how I protect my stash: helping more people to use Bitcoin.

121 sats \ 1 reply \ @lightworks 10 Mar

Retirement is fiat thinking

Bitcoin is eternal struggle for FREEDOM!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 10 Mar

Agreed

105 sats \ 8 replies \ @Coinsreporter 10 Mar

It can really help you figure out how to retire on Bitcoin.

41 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin 10 Mar

This is a crap video from a shitcoiner

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @Coinsreporter 10 Mar

Yes, in terms of his comparing Bitcoin to Fiat. A 💩mindset TBH. But unless, we find an easier way to acknowledge 1sat=1sat around the globe. This has to be. Even in my case, I do have to rely upon selling or collateralizing a small portion of my stack. Don't wanna offend anyone here, I believe and fully understand what a true Bitcoin standard is. But we are left with not much in this part of the world.

20 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 10 Mar

So you knew is a trash and you still share it... OMG

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @carlosfandango 10 Mar

Eugh. Just a55milking.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Coinsreporter 10 Mar

Give us the solution, teach us the Bitcoin standard, be our guiding light @DarthCoin

7 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 10 Mar

Is simple. All you need to do is to read ALL my guides, like a bible: https://darth-coin.github.io/ If all those 70+ guides are not enough, I am still here... for a while.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 10 Mar

Thanks, I will read them and I will also try to refrain from postin' 💩mindset.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @carlosfandango 10 Mar

I won’t be watching or following his advice. Too many alts.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @030e0dca83 10 Mar

What are your cash needs today and how do you expect that to change in the future?

Today you need approx $500 per person to live without basic needs in my country. Don't know what will be in the future. That's why I should all extra money sell for sats (it's hilariously small amount) and keep studying Bitcoin. Knowledge with sats stack is the essential thing to live with in the future

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kingzing131 10 Mar

Atomic finance where you can do options with Bitcoin, without ever giving up your ownership.

Not a guaranteed win but if my stack is big enough, I can see myself using it as a mean to keep earning.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @yoshi 10 Mar

I asked a similar question here: #198720

You needed about 7 bitcoin back then and could spend about $30k a year. Since then however the price has more than doubled.

It’s tough math!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitcoiner1 10 Mar

The only downside that I think of, is that all your plans will be depending on the BTC price and you can not control it.

I'm sure that FIAT will be devaluating more every year, but maybe, when you need to get some cash for your BTC the price is not where you expect to be.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stackerjim 10 Mar

It probably boils down to something like:

straighten out your budget and determine how much you need to live comfortably with a generous margin of error.
multiply that by a bitcoin cycle (4 years)
save or peel off that amount from your stack somewhere above all time high every cycle
as you go and maybe work some here and there or spend less than you thought, sweep it into btc.
ride the rollercoaster
repeat

The amounts you need to peel off will probably shrink and you will end up with a decent portion of your stack intact when you enter the citadels ;).

It all depends on your conviction.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 10 Mar

Its up to the individual. What kind of retirement do you want in what kind of luxury?

I'd say that bitcoin isn't finished yet so you still need to help the network in some way. Whether that's education, running a LN node or testing new ideas out and sharing. Or simply just working on your passion and accepting bitcoin as payment.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 10 Mar

Math should be simpler than current retirement shit. They make that shit obscure on purpose...

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lanter 10 Mar

I started Stacking SATs in purpose of buying my dream bike. Thats one reason is all i need. any side wants or needs are set aside.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SaToSHiWoMaN 11 Mar outlawed

stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.