The Twilight of the Antifederalists by Murray Rothbard \ stacker news ~history

The Twilight of the Antifederalists by Murray Rothbard mises.org/mises-wire/twilight-antifederalists

333 sats \ 9 comments \ @Undisciplined 16 Mar history

New York was the toughest nut for the Federalists to crack. The Federalists ultimately got their new constitution, but it was largely thanks to New York Antifederalists that the worst plans of the Federalists were thwarted.

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240 sats \ 6 replies \ @arrivederci 16 Mar freebie

The essays contained in The Federalist were designed not for the ages—not as an explanation of nationalist views—but as a propaganda document to allay the fears and lull the suspicions of the Antifederal forces. Consequently, these field marshals of the Federalist campaign were concerned to make the Constitution look like a mixed concoction of checks-and-balances and popular representation, when they really desired, and believed that they had, a political system of overriding national power. What is remarkable is the fact that historians and conservative political theorists have seized upon and canonized these campaign pieces as fountains of quasi-divine political wisdom, as hallowed texts to be revered, even as somehow a vital part of American constitutional law.

It's my impression, from outside the US, that the population is still very heavily propagandised to revere the Constitution, when, and I agree with the Antifederalists, its contentious passage meant the betrayal and end of a great experiment in democracy. And it has been downhill ever since for democracy in the USA as it has been increasingly captured by an oligarchy.

23 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 17 Mar

USA was not founded as a democracy. Where in the Constitution is the word “democracy”? Originally only landowners could vote. This requirement would solve a lot of problems associated with the excesses of democracy. No one envisioned 18 year old voting in 1787.

The Federalist Papers were written by Jay, Madison and Hamilton to persuade the voters of New York.

As far as constitutional propaganda, there are many misconceptions from elementary school or pop culture and media.

Let’s take one example, the death penalty. Opponents of the death penalty will say that amendment 8 forbids the death penalty because it is cruel and excessive. That interpretation is wrong because cruel and unusual have nothing to do with proportionality. The text says “cruel and unusual punishments”. The word is plural because it refers to a list of punishments in English common law that were deemed cruel and unusual.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 17 Mar

Where in the Constitution

I believe he was talking about the period before the constitution, which was much more decentralized.

23 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 17 Mar

Article of confederation which was 13 independent states perhaps too independent

I think states imposed trade restrictions or tariffs on other states to prevent accidentally interstate commerce

Don’t conflate decentralized with democracy. 1776 was not about democracy. Jefferson studied Athens and Ancient Greece. His vision of a democratic society consisting of the yeoman farmer was not shared by John Adams or Hamilton

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 17 Mar

It depends on how he's using "democracy". Institutions are considered more "democratic" when more people have input. It doesn't have to mean everyone votes on everything.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined OP 16 Mar

Your impression, from outside the US, is very accurate.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @arrivederci 16 Mar

Happy to find that the book from which this excerpt is taken is available as an audiobook on the Mises website :

https://mises.org/podcasts/conceived-liberty-volume-v

I've added it to my History subscriptions.

23 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 17 Mar freebie

The biggest expansion of power first occurred during the Civil War. Lincoln opposed the right of states to secede. He also imposed a temporary income tax to support the war effort.

In 1913 the income tax amendment passed, about expansion of federal power.

Also in 1913 was the passage of the federal reserve act.

In 1917 the amendment to ban the sale of alcohol passed. By 1920 every state was dry.

The New Deal under FDR was an unconstitutional expansion of federal power. The Supreme Court ruled against FDR until 1937. After FDR threatened to pack the court, he never lost a Supreme Court decision.

Social Security act passed in 1935. Life expectancy was 65 years old. The program was so that most beneficiaries would be dead.

The Great Society under LBJ was an extension of the New Deal. Medicare and Medicaid were created. Welfare programs expanded.

The Constitution and Bill of Rights were created to ensure individual liberty, small government and federalism.

Federalism is unique to America. The concept of local or states rights doesn’t exist anywhere else. Maybe Switzerland 🇨🇭 to some extent.

Does DEI exist outside USA?

What about illegal immigration? What do other countries do?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 17 Mar

Lincoln doesn't get enough consideration for Worst President of All-Time. I think he has a great case.