Opening your keys in different wallets \ stacker news ~bitcoin

1329 sats \ 20 comments \ @Theorygon 19 Mar bitcoin_beginners

I've been trying to help a friend lately and was pushing her to leave that crap wallet Exodus. She is an absolute beginner, only has a desktop pc and she isn't very technical. I thought Sparrow might be daunting for her so I was looking for something with a more of a "friendly" UX and somehow we ended up installing Wasabi.

But when we entered the 12 words (which I call a "key", a "Seed Phrase" or a "mnemonic" .. yeah I guess by keys, many mean "private key"?), we first had to wait for "downloading and processing the bitcoin network", which I couldn't find any information about what it exactly means (if anyone knows...). Besides, it took quite a while!

Once it was finally set and after inputting a "password", we couldn't see any balance in Wasabi.

Of course the little gut feeling ... we looked up (on her previous wallet and on an explorer) and the funds are there.

The "password". There's also something very confusing in Wasabi's FAQ. It says to pay attention to enter the right "password" and that the wrong one could lead to a different wallet. In my jargon, I think they mean a "passphrase", which if I understand correctly, indeed is access to literally another wallet. Yet I created a second wallet on Wasabi and imported the 12 words again, this time without password (since the original wallet doesn't have a passphrase) but it still didn't displayed any balance.

I looked all options in Wasabi that I could think could influence what it displays, or how it could interpret a key (sorry, seed phrase, 12 words, haha) but couldn't find anything that could even be changed.

I'll add that that her wallet is around 1,5 year old and received btc 2 times and send some 1 time. The seed was created in Exodus and I believe it's Segwit.

Oh, and I had deactivated the automatic coinjoin in Wasabi, as I didn't want to add that to her straight on (later maybe).

Anyhow, with that long "download" at the beginning plus the "non balance", that wasn't a very impressive demonstration to my friend :D

I sometimes did hear about people having issues when opening their keys in different wallets but it isn't something I did personally encountered. I created countless keys and opened them in many different wallets because it is one of the things that made me click, the fact that your 12 words are your bitcoin and that it's not "on the software". I also need to make sure they can be opened anywhere and wanted to teach that.

Later on, still checking around about that issue, I also tried Specter Desktop (again, for the UX and without my friend) and loaded a key (mnemonic phrase, haha) of a small wallet to try it up.... my 12 words didn't open. This time got a message: "Unsupported wallet format: Expecting value: Line 1 column 1 (char 0)". I do find kina funny to never have had that issue for all this time but having it now twice within a couple days :D That seed was created in Blue wallet, just for the detail.

So yeah, would be curious to hear if anybody got issues with loading keys in different wallets (I'm aware that some just do not accept mnemonic phrases at all or that Lightning Wallets that do have a seed phrase, such as Phoenix, obviously don't display your lightning balance.), and if by any chances, similar configurations. And/or know better about Wasabi.

What's most probable is that I'll install her Sparrow :D

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182 sats \ 8 replies \ @0245bdaef2 19 Mar

First off, you’re going to want to stop putting your seed phrase into all of these computers and software. A good rule of thumb is that anything connected to the internet should not ever touch your seed words.

Next, go back to the original software and find the derivation scheme to make sure you’re getting it right. You can verify this by checking to see if the addresses match. If they don’t, you may be using the right seed words but the wrong derivation path.

Once you find your friend’s funds, you’ll want to get her a hw signer such as a coldcard, jade, foundation, or similar. Stick to BTC only hardware if you can. Use that device to generate a new seed phrase. Move all funds to that new wallet.

21 sats \ 7 replies \ @Theorygon OP 19 Mar

Agree 100%, I'm aware of the risks of software wallets. It's just that in my opinion, for beginners who have unsignificant stacks, I prefer let them first learn basics and make sure they understand the point. So long their keys are written offline I think it's "ok" (even though of course one can argue about the way the seeds are stored inside the software plus the risk of downloading a fake one. I did verify PGP keys etc.. before using it).

Throwing them in the HW setup may wait for a more substantial amount, with security measures growing with the stack, no need for a straight up full fort knox battle plan. All about baby steps so they feel comfortable and in accordance to their technical level.

I also thought about the derivation path. It's a concept I'm not yet fully familiar with, though. Thanks for the tip about the addresses, will do that -) (And that's also the thing with Wasabi, I couldn't edit the derivation, it seems, while as far as I could see, it's possible in Sparrow).

And for sure I'll bring her slowly to a HW.

Thanks for chiming in!

21 sats \ 6 replies \ @03c43494a9 19 Mar

By having her input seed words into an internet connected device you are teaching her bad habits that could lead her to losing her stack in the future. Jade is a fairly low cost hw device that I have found to be fairly approachable for newbies.

Like you said, security setup can evolve over time but I think it’s probably best to set her up with simple good habits. Props to you for helping her learn! And I don’t think there is one right answer here.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Theorygon OP 19 Mar

Entirely true, the bad habit is a big point and indeed, the debate for the right way to onboard is still raging :D

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @0245bdaef2 19 Mar

Another noob-friendly option worth considering is a tapsigner with something like sparrow or nunchuk

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Theorygon OP 19 Mar

Yeah saw those a couple times, looks like a good setup indeed. But nunchuk isn't Desktop as far as I can tell.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @0245bdaef2 19 Mar

Why desktop over mobile?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Theorygon OP 19 Mar

Just a person who refuses to use smartphones and tablets, they still exist :D

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0245bdaef2 19 Mar

Also works with sparrow, which is desktop. Just needs an nfc reader.

By the time you add in cost of card and reader you might as well go for a proper hw signer

152 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 19 Mar

Here you have all the wallet types details https://walletsrecovery.org/

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Theorygon OP 19 Mar

Wow, thanks! Very complete.

"While great advances have been made in interoperability and recoverability, developers across the industry continue to build wallets that either:

Don’t implement BIP standard(s).
Implement a BIP standard, but inconsistently when compared with other wallets.
Implement a BIP standard, but one that has not been widely adopted (and perhaps only by them).
Don’t have clear documentation about their derivation paths, backup and recovery processes."

That is exactly it. And what I've been explaining my friend.

I'll dig through it and especially in the derivation path, as I'm pretty sure that's the issue. Besides it's the one I most heard about in similar cases.

131 sats \ 2 replies \ @expatriotic 19 Mar

Use Sparrow. Full stop. It's incredible. Plus, wasabi is not a good faith actor. People using their software have gone to jail because of their negligence.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Theorygon OP 19 Mar

Thanks!

Yeah Sparrow is the one I also prefer! And after this experience, I'll definitely make her opt for it despite the austere look! Curious if the issue will occur too, haha.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @expatriotic 19 Mar

Once you load up Sparrow, contact them via telegram if you hit a snag. They're prompt and helpful.

121 sats \ 1 reply \ @john_doe 19 Mar

Recently I ran into the same problem when I did a recovery of funds on Voltage, where they use LND. It uses the aezeed cipher seed scheme. So I tried on Blue wallet, didn't show up everything, looked up a way to do it manually to translate it to the "normal" scheme. There was also Blixt which could do it for me automatically. Lastly, Green also do things in a particular way, it says multisig but not the usual way, so people indeed have compatibility issues.

Bip39 and 44 scheme is pretty much standard I think and should work with most of the software wallets.

It is very much a subjective opinion but as a user-friendly option I think Trezor with the touch screen is quite easy to use. For 2fa also on Bitwarden I set it up as a recovery option and the flow is quite nice, with colors.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @Theorygon OP 19 Mar

Ah well, if we go with Lightning on top, we're not out of the woods :D Glad you did fix your issue .)

50 sats \ 1 reply \ @030e0dca83 19 Mar

I have nevermind used Wassabi. Maybe it should download all the Blockchain and without blocks on your oc you won't see balance

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Theorygon OP 19 Mar

Would just be great if they'd have an explanation of what it exactly does but it's nowhere and on the couple posts I found the closer related to that on reddit were with people who were connecting it to their own node.

And what would be the point if at the end it can't even show your balance? Just weird.

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @criptopanas 19 Mar

The derivathion path could be the issue

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Theorygon OP 19 Mar

Most likely. Gotta dive into that more seriously!