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22 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 19 Mar \ on: Epicureanism vs Stoicism + BONUS Foucault mostly_harmless

So is it virtuous to participate in a society that takes advantage of you - whether you know it or not? Is it more or less virtuous to participate in a social interaction wherein you are taken advantage of? Is it more or less virtuous to participate knowingly or unknowingly of your complicity in being taken advantage of? Does it matter?

I think pleasure is more relevant to sociality than virtue is. Being asocial is a lot like being asexual regardless of the reason for being either. Sex and sociality are pleasurable for most humans even where they imply a hierarchy, some form of power exchange, or risk. The epicurean risks non-pleasure in pursuit of great pleasure, don't they? That's my impression. It's the stoic, as far as I can tell, that is careful about risky pleasures.

Largely, I argue for self-education.

For self-education vs social participation? It seems like a stretch to declare them at odds. What would you argue? Self-education is objectively more pleasurable than social participation?

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @provolone OP 20 Mar freebie

The epicurean risks non-pleasure in pursuit of great pleasure, don't they? That's my impression.

This is actually a major stoic critique of epicureanism! I don't disagree, although I may be more a fan of hedonic calculus to assess my options :-)

And as an aside and prelude to my next comment, epicureans highly valued friendships, and devoting a great amount of time to their friendships. They eschewed political participation, thinking it a bit illusory.

What would you argue? Self-education is objectively more pleasurable than social participation?

No, absolutely not. That statement, when written, was directed to the young aspirant of change who perhaps has an idea of what they want to do in the world, but still requires far much more perspective than they have (and they don't even know it).

If I had to choose between an evening with a great mind in the form of the book and a real friend, I would choose a friend any night of the week.

This does betray my epicurean perspective, however, that I value socializing with friends over political/social participation. And I think lifetime-wise I would be more pleased with great friendships over virtuous placement in a public hierarchy - which, again, betrays an epicurean (as opposed to stoic) value set.