Math scores declining \ stacker news ~charts

600 sats \ 18 comments \ @oliverweiss 26 Mar charts

173 sats \ 11 replies \ @SimpleStacker 26 Mar

It's because of online math education. I saw it with my own eyes with my kids.

The problem isn't that online lessons are bad. The problem is that online assignments don't promote putting pen to paper. There's something about the way our brains are wired, that writing with our hands promotes learning and retention, relative to trying to do things on a screen.

My kids struggled with math coming out of Covid, but when I realized that all they needed was some light drilling via pen and paper, they improved quickly.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @oliverweiss OP 26 Mar

Yep, I just hope that these few years after lockdowns turn out to be the outliers. But I can definitely confirm that you can’t do math with paper and pen :)

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @BenAllenG 26 Mar

I know for a fact that as I was learning I needed like 10 extra sheets of paper to do my math problems. I wonder if a figma-like tool that just give you a large blank space on an iPad combined with some KaTeX like functionality could help give students a reason to "show their work" its immensly important and definitely will produce better results than an input looking for a single number as the answer

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 26 Mar

Yep, I had to teach my kids simple habits like having a stack of paper nearby when doing math, and resisting the temptation to do too many steps in their head.

Some sort of automated functionality for grading handwritten assignments would be amazing

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @grayruby 26 Mar

Hmm interesting. I haven't had this experience at all. My son is homeschooled and has done primarily online lessons his entire academic career. Some book work as well but mostly online and he is doing grade 11 math while he should be in grade 8 for his age. He is a smart kid but I don't think online lessons have hampered him at all, in fact they have helped him.

Personally I think it has to do more with attention span.

50 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker 26 Mar

Curious as to his habits on tackling more complex math problems. Does he work them out on a sheet of paper with a pencil or pen?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 27 Mar

Yes he always has a pencil and paper with him.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 27 Mar

That's great for him, but what I see is that a lot of kids never develop the habit of using pencil and paper, including my own. I had to teach them to use it, when I found out this was the problem. Once they got used to using pencil and paper, they got better at math.

I see it at the college level too. A lot of college students these days are allergic to using pencil and paper, and I'm convinced it's harming their development. Source: I teach at a large state college.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Voldemort 27 Mar

I would agree with this as a partial, maybe primary, reason.

I think there are a lot of other contributing factors, as well. I think the further separation between asian countries and european/western countries is evident of some of these.

An over emphasis on feelings. As society often does, there has been an over correction from ignoring your feelings that a lot of current parents experienced as children to constantly considering them. This means kids can use feelings as an excuse to underperform or get out of things altogether. Sometimes it is valid, but I am close with a lot of educators who are told kids need to be given breaks for all sorts of BS.
For a long time western cultures, maybe just the US, have told kids it is okay to be bad at math because math is hard. Eliminating any math requirements from certain colleges is cementing this belief. A lot of parents I know also think the new teaching methods are stupid because they don't understand them which further perpetuates this.

I don't get the sense these first two have occurred to the same degree in asian cultures. I could be wrong, so would be interested in other's perspectives.

The age in which kids start social media is decreasing which leads to a whole host of issues. I can't imagine mindless scrolling makes it easier for kids to focus on math homework.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @john_doe 27 Mar

deleted by author

20 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 27 Mar

So you already developed a habit of using pencil and paper when needed.

I think many kids, including my own, never developed that habit/skill. I had to show them. They never developed the habit during online education coz they didn't need to. At the age they were during COVID, the math was easy enough that they could do most of it in their head or by typing a few lines on the computer.

When the work got harder, I realized they didn't have the habit or skill of working long problems out on paper so I had to teach them: you need to keep a stack of paper next to you and you need to write all your steps down

So I'm not saying that online math education is inherently bad. But I think if you didn't already have good habits, it can hinder you if there isn't someone in your life to teach you the good habits, which teachers would have done more of in an in person setting

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @john_doe 27 Mar

Yes, actually I deleted my post because I re-read what you wrote afterwards and we mainly agree. Online math education is good given that instructions are correct and kids should understand they should need a paper and a pen or a similar alternative (let's say a board you can erase like what you may also had at elementary school). I was not aware that for kids having to write down their calculations was not obvious.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheBTCManual 28 Mar

I wonder how language and comprehension will be affected due to LLMs kids and students are just going to continue to rely on these tools and never take the time to understand what they are creating or the purpose of the lesson, its all about ticking the box, it might have worked before but Its going to be tough to teach the next generation if they can just tap on a screen and spit out an answer

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @oliverweiss OP 28 Mar

Yep, valid concerns.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @030e0dca83 27 Mar

Here's a man in my country who speaks with random people in video chat and asks them: what is 13% of 100?

Most of his opponents don't know the answer and this is sad. There're lots of people who miss elementary school

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @oliverweiss OP 28 Mar

This is really sad, and it is similar in many countries unfortunately.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 27 Mar

Learning maths require more intervention than other subjects, imo. For other subjects, if you have good command on language, you can still be a scholar with your self learning.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @john_doe 27 Mar

Good to know, this shows that on the international market, jobs requiring higher level of math may have its wage getting appreciated over time.