242 sats \ 7 replies \ @kr 25 Jul

i hope the unlimited file sharing will have an immediate impact for a lot of people.

it’s incredible how hard it is to send large files (1GB or more) from a phone or even a computer today. hopefully this becomes one of the preferred tools to use moving forward.

50 sats \ 5 replies \ @lrz 25 Jul

I have been trying Wormhole which is decent but a bit slow in my experience. Bringing incentives to the network via Lightning is the game changer.

148 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr 25 Jul

yeah wormhole is cool, wish more people knew about it. i reached out to one of the wormhole devs a couple weeks ago and suggested they should integrate lightning.

he was familiar with the concept, but was instead focusing his time on their parent company Socket.

Is this the same as Magic Wormhole (https://magic-wormhole.readthedocs.io/en/latest/) ?

45 sats \ 0 replies \ @lrz 26 Jul

Here's a wormhole based on webrtc: https://github.com/saljam/webwormhole (inspired by MW)

20 sats \ 1 replies \ @lrz 26 Jul

Not the same, MW looks even more interestin

MW is insanely useful. Great for sending files to people you’re talking to over the phone

bittorrent sync was a great way of doing this for awhile but i don't believe they ever open sourced the product or even continued development

186 sats \ 0 replies \ @ln123 25 Jul

Just tried it with my team - we do typically have network problems with video calls.

The quality for one2one was great, but then it's the same with Matrix (which is also peer to peer).

For group calls (for which matrix uses Jitsi) was also very high quality - however, there were some issues:

  • when the third person connected, I couldn't see or hear him, but the second person could
  • this was fixed by disconnecting and reconnecting
  • after screen sharing the issue happened again
  • I was unable to end the call this time (button didn't work)
  • one user was unable to resize the video (when maximising, it cut off part of the picture). This was on ubuntu.

Summary - the technology seems to have great promise. It's an alpha release so bugs like the above are likely quite normal. We were using mac and linux clients.

Sounds like a good basis for telemedicine

Yes, ... that's one of a many things!!!

  • P2P online marketplace
  • P2P trading marketplace/exchange
  • OnlySats (you know something like that is bound to happen, sooner or later)

Oh boy! Another "standard" chat protocol! Because all the other standards weren't "standard" enough. https://xkcd.com/927/

We don't have a solid base to build upon just yet. This is another attempt, and it may end up being extremely solid. Rome was not built overnight. More people building and trying new things is good. Once a winner arrives, people will move to it.

So for now its wait and see, but it sure looks promising.

P2P chat protocols have existed for decades. The lack of "a solid base" may be a sign that there's simply no product/market fit. In the meantime, pick your protocol and spend the rest of your life trying to get all your contacts to adopt it. Then, give up and use Signal.

This is big news, not because it is a new P2P chat.

This is big news because it is a new approach to building P2P applications.

Which could also have been said for dozens of the other protocols when they launched,

lol, I do use Signal. The chat functionality is not what interests me.

Bitcoin is a messaging system, do you also hate that because signal? Just feels like you are being salty for no reason. Nobody has a gun to your head asking you to look into this protocol, you are free to ignore it and move on with your life.

Not joining the circlejerk == hate... Got it.

Just being realistic. Network effects exist. If a feature makes a 100x improvement but has 1/1000th of the userbase, then the feature is still less valuable than the "inferior" alternative with more users.

I understand that it's literally "Day 1" and the network effect can only grow from here.

Signal is not entirely p2p. It relies on their servers to relay some types of messages and contact discovery. They even use Intel proprietary encryption extensions.

Signal also dabbles in shitcoinery.

There is no comparison. Posting that XKCD comic was out of place from the begining.

I'm saying that P2P hasn't succeeded before and people just use Signal because it actually has product/market fit.

IRC has been the dominant chat for several decades and is now starting to get beat by matrix (neither are P2P)

I'm saying that P2P hasn't succeeded before and people just use Signal because it actually has product/market fit.

Then we should celebrate the fact that people are still using their own time and resources to solve this problem.

What's the problem P2P is solving here? And why haven't the other P2P chats solved it yet?

No, being aggressively negative on something that was announced today is what I am referring to. There is really no value in being overtly pessimistic about something we still don't even have the full details of.

Not all innovations succeed. Most ideas don't get traction on their first, second, or hundredth iteration. Nobody knows when they will capture lightning in a bottle

Maybe you are correct in your assumptions, but you're just going about it in an unproductive and needlessly negative way.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @lrz 25 Jul

Agree. The differentiating factor here may be the introduction of incentives through Lightning

51 sats \ 1 replies \ @k00b 25 Jul

I'm somewhat confused about the claims of privacy.

As far as I understand from the video, the DHT is used to map your public key -> IP address. This is neat, because I can send/retrieve your data based on your public key alone, but it also doxxs your IP which is pretty significant.

121 sats \ 0 replies \ @lrz 26 Jul

Also not possible to use without granting access to both camera and mic? I'd rather wait for the source code.

LN integrated?⚡️LN integrated.

Can somebody explain how Holepunch is different from the Impervious browser?

40 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 26 Jul

Impervious is a bitcoin-forward web browser with P2P file sharing and communication (text chat/video) features.

Keet is a P2P file sharing and communication app that has Bitcoin and Tether integrations.

Also, you can download and use Keet (in alpha) today while Impervious has not had a public release yet.

55 sats \ 0 replies \ @sb 25 Jul

No limit on file-size when sharing with peers AND Lightning micropayments built in LFG 🚀🔥⚡

I wish if they pay rewards in satoshi to encourage people download and experience it

So @P2P_bitcoin was right! :) . Interesting, let's see where this goes...

25 sats \ 1 replies \ @moel 31 Jul

How is this different from https://KeyBase.io?

Keybase is centralized.

Keet uses Holepunch and HyperCore, and thus peer to peer, and open source.

Tether says source for both will be released when ready (December, 2022).

I will wait for the open souce to start using it

Any thoughts on leaving messages after a call has ended - it does not seem to appear when re-entering the rooms?

If it is P2P, where would this storage for messages exist?

Anyway, Keet is closed source currently, and I haven't even see anything saying Keet would be open sourced, ... just the Holepunch SDK. I do hope they will release Keet as open source though.


I now see they do plan to release Keet as open source as well as the Holephunch SDK.

Including the platform, app etc. We're big believers of open source. Just check our Githubs 😆


Seeing positive progress in the crypto space really gives hope. I am happy to be alive to witness it

20 sats \ 2 replies \ @kevin 25 Jul

Anyone else having trouble downloading the installer? Specifically for the Apple Silicon platform.

I was able to download that binary without issue.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @kevin 25 Jul

Seems to be working well now :)

20 sats \ 3 replies \ @ln123 25 Jul

does anyone have instructions for the linux install? Doesn't seem to be straightforward.

On latest Pop_Os (and probably Ubuntu) I just had to mark the AppImage as executable and run it.

It is packaged as an appimage

So the instructions are:

  • Download
  • Move it to a directory you wish to run it from (e.g., ~/opt )
  • Do a chmod u+x [downloaded file]
  • Run it! (e.g., from a file manager, or add a launcher to your desktop)

It will create some directories in ~/.config and maybe elsewhere, so don't forget that if you later want to "uninstall".

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @ln123 25 Jul

Actually it turns out the issue was with a missing dependency - we had to run sudo apt install libfuse2

This is pretty awesome. Hope they don't fuck it up with bad monetization schema, lack of open source or some other sneaky shit down the road.

They will be open sourcing it in December 2022.

20 sats \ 1 replies \ @stick 25 Jul

How is Keet different to Jitsi Meet? In other words, how is Holepunch different than WebRTC (which is already open and standardized)?

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @lrz 25 Jul

As far as I understand Jitsi Meet uses a server to coordinate and merge WebRTC video streams but it is fully E2E encrypted and decentralized as you can run your own instance. Much like Nostr versus other truly P2P alternatives.

I don't think you can transfer arbitrary files or payments with Jisti, though.

20 sats \ 2 replies \ @om 25 Jul

where source

Holepunch SDK will be publicly available in December, they say.

I guess we'll wait to then before trying

Love this concept. A big step in the right direction for sure!

Also, see the post, here on SN, where shared is an article on Keet, in Bitcoin Magazine:

Keet Is Introducing P2P Digital Communications, Will Integrate Bitcoin Payments https://stacker.news/items/49229 https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/keet-the-decentralized-communications-app