We need a real decentralized mesh network for censorship resistant Bitcoin usagenitter.it/bradmillscan/status/1551951097375358976
231 sats \ 15 comments \ @cryptocoin 26 Jul 2022 bitcoin
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63 sats \ 4 replies \ @cryptocoin OP 26 Jul 2022
There have been some posts, here on SN, regarding mesh. A couple of note:
Okay guys. Hear me out. Helium network, but with lightning. #26106
Making Bitcoin Unstoppable Part One: Mesh Nets #47911 https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/making-bitcoin-unstoppable-part-one-mesh-nets
Reticulum: Self-configuring, encrypted and resilient mesh for LoRa, packet radio, WiFi and everything in between #17325 https://github.com/markqvist/Reticulum
and a number of other posts, with comments regarding mesh, which can be found using SN's search.
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20 sats \ 1 reply \ @notgeld 26 Jul 2022
Okay guys. Hear me out. Helium network, but with lightning.
I may be wrong but mesh networks, or couple of projects aimed them, were a thing long long time ago. Almost in the first wave of LN projects.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryptocoin OP 26 Jul 2022
Long before LN even ...
It's been a decade now since the first "bitcoin-enabled hotspot" discussions began: #26211
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @cryptocoin OP 26 Jul 2022
Here's another Helium-like approach, ... Cardano related, with its own token:
World Mobile - The Last Mile https://worldmobile.io
Every country requires at least one Aether Node for World Mobile to operate, since Aether Nodes connects to existing legacy telecommunication networks.
Aether Node operators are required to meet local regulations. The operators also need to possess the necessary licenses to operate.
Aether Node https://worldmobile101.com/aether-node/
What's an AirNode? https://worldmobile.io/blog/post/what-is-an-airnode/
World Mobile's network and backhaul explained https://worldmobile.io/blog/post/network-backhaul-explained/
World Mobile Aether/Air/Earth Nodes, WMT, Roadmap, and more!
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11 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryptocoin OP 26 Jul 2022
Now this is interesting:
UK:
Pilot deployments in several rural locations backhauled by Starlink.
Deployment Diary [22 July 2022] https://worldmobile.io/blog/post/deployment-diary/
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121 sats \ 4 replies \ @zuspotirko 26 Jul 2022
real decentralized mesh network for censorship resistance
You mean Tor?
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27 sats \ 2 replies \ @lrz 26 Jul 2022
Tor is not a mesh network
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42 sats \ 1 reply \ @zuspotirko 26 Jul 2022
Why not? Peer to peer, nodes are arranged in a mesh, input node and output node are separated by one relay. What is missing?
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41 sats \ 0 replies \ @lrz 26 Jul 2022
I think it refers to mesh networks as an alternative in an adversarial scenario where ISPs or other points of the internet infrastructure get coopted to censor or shut down. Tor and VPNs would be useful tools as an overlay in that infrastructure
For example the Briar app does this:
If the internet’s down, Briar can sync via Bluetooth or Wi-Fi, keeping the information flowing in a crisis. If the internet’s up, Briar can sync via the Tor network, protecting users and their relationships from surveillance.
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2 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryptocoin OP 26 Jul 2022
Well, not exactly. Without a physical network there's no way for a user's device to communicate through to the Internet, ... Tor or not.
For the censorship-resistance part, maybe the mesh serves as Tor relay as well. But the devices and connectivity for a mesh network (and wireless delivery) is mostly what the discussion is about.
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22 sats \ 2 replies \ @nerd2ninja 26 Jul 2022
Okay, lets talk about this:
https://www.instructables.com/LoRa-Mesh-Radio/
Since we're talking about lightning network, I think this is much more viable. Rewarding mesh node operators with a blockchain based subsidy first brings me back to "If you aren't trying to be money, why do you need a coin" as in "A reliance on a subsidy is evidence your project doesn't provide economic value, but secondly it would be fragile to the kinds of attacks mentioned in that Pentagon paper (ISP risk).
Lightning network on the other hand, is already a networking protocol by design. Implement BGP in your LoRa mesh node, connect a lightning channel with nearby nodes, and route packets with your lightning fee.
I think this can be viable without a large network even. Just go to places that don't have free WiFi, but nonetheless have a decent gathering of people, set up a LoRa access point and connect it with an ISP (Mobile data or networked to your home router). Set it up with an internal webpage explaining that you need to establish a lightning network channel to use the node, (perhaps even host the APK to download a wallet) and bam, you're in business.
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15 sats \ 1 reply \ @cryptocoin OP 26 Jul 2022
connect it with an ISP (Mobile data or networked to your home router).
Which violates most ISP / mobile data service agreements. But that doesn't mean people won't do it anyway.:
There is some discussion about this approach with @pseudozach where the link was shared in a comment reply here on SN:
https://github.com/araspitzu/btc-hotspot https://www.peplink.com/products/max-adapter/ This product has custom captive portal with a radius integration. So basically we just need to build a public captive portal that takes payments with LN and allow the user access.
https://t.me/kriptodecom/1512
#26207
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40 sats \ 0 replies \ @nerd2ninja 26 Jul 2022
Okay I mean if you're looking at being super serious about being commercial with it (which means you have to respect those TOS most people don't read lmao) then okay you have to call up the ISP you're working with and talk out a business agreement and just so you don't think this is unrealistic:
Top comment: "Honestly anyone can start an ISP especially close to a Data Center. You can get IP Transit for relatively check $200/m for 1Gbps or $900/m for 10Gbps from HE for example. Stay away from buying Transit from companies like Comcast, att, Cox, and Charter. Aswell there are a lot of old cable plants that are defunct and if you had $50,000-$150,000 if your in a small community you could probably get it upgraded to 2 way. If you know fiber and can afford to run cables GPON networks are extremely cheap Ubiquiti is less than $5k if you get a router, switch,and GPON. Wisps are very cheap and are the best to start with if you have low funds but if you have lots of trees in your area you are going to have a hard time doing so. I’m actually doing a HFC and Fiber plant right now in a small town here in the US. If you live in the US look for grants the government gives out Millions each year to start rural ISPs."
This one is cool too:
but there are too many videos like this so Imma stop now.
Also, if you're about to say "Well in Europe" just stop lmao I'm American and realistically I think the places where this is best suited is probably the Central African Republic (CAR) or other places with little or no internet access.
But yes I've read through all those other links. Very valuable content.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @cryptocoin OP 26 Jul 2022
The link for this post uses a read-only front-end for Twitter, which can be easier to read for viewing a full Twitter thread. The Tweet by Brad Mills is the following:
We need a real decentralized mesh network for censorship resistance Bitcoin usage. It’s not about revenue is it? It’s about anti-fragility.
https://twitter.com/bradmillscan/status/1551951097375358976
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryptocoin OP 26 Jul 2022
And the Tweet that kicked off the Twitter thread in which Brad's Tweet is a reply:
.@Helium, often cited as one of the best examples of a Web3 use case, has received $365M of investment led by @a16z. Regular folks have also been convinced to spend $250M buying hotspot nodes, in hopes of earning passive income. The result? Helium's total revenue is $6.5k/month
https://twitter.com/liron/status/1551738599254773765 https://nitter.it/liron/status/1551738599254773765 <-- Shows the thread in a single, easy-to-read, web page
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