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289 sats \ 34 replies \ @siggy47 20 May \ on: This Man Says He Legally Hasn't Paid Federal Taxes In Over 30 Years econ
I know I will piss off many people here, but as a lawyer and an active libertarian in my younger days, I was a magnet for people who were convinced they had a legal way to avoid paying taxes. I even attended a few events back in the day where Peter Schiff's dad was speaking. That didn't end well. One of my childhood heroes, Jerry Koosman of the Mets, got convinced and wound up doing time.
I am skeptical. Even if the legal arguments are correct, the government won't permit their gravy train to get derailed. That's just me. To each his own.
I find the logical inconsistencies with people who on the one hand believe the government is an evil criminal organization but also believe they will follow some technicality in the law interesting. I'm no expert but there are many examples of the state making and breaking third rules. Bad judgements. People being unjustly imprisoned. Do your own research, but I agree with you for me it isn't worth the tradeoff risk.
I also wonder how much time and wealth is lost by the effort to avoid taxes. On top of that you add a lot of risk of losing your freedom completely. The state creates many loopholes called the tax code. Do what the wealthy do. Use the system to your advantage. They will still be able to steal from you but there is much less risk.
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I agree. I always found that most of these legal tax avoidance guys hold "the law" to a much higher level of respect than is deserved, and certainly more than your average lawyer does. For some reason they suspend their often anarchistic leanings in this one small area by showing an odd reverence towards legal concepts.
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Bingo. It just blows my mind though. I mean look at the Constitution... even when it is clear attorneys and judges find ways around it. Another myth is that this is a modern thing. It goes back to early days. The state cheats and steals. They don't let the law get in the way.
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Yes.
As I mentioned in the past, I used to do IT consulting for a lawfirm(s)....and being tax lawyers, they occasionally had a "sovereign citizen" type that would appear and have some detailed explanation on why they didn't need to pay taxes.
It is as you say: In one breath they say (correctly) the gov is a mafia -- and in the next they mention some arcane clause of Admiralty law and say that if they utter these magic words it will cause the judge to be forced to rule with them. The lawyers would generally politely turn these people away as its a lost cause.
Reminds of the "This violates the Non-Aggression Principle" cartoon
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I am all for self sufficiency and independence but these sovereign individual characters live in a bubble 🫧 almost as bad a college professor with tenure.
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An artificial legal “person” is a dead entity. It is a legal fiction “persona” in the “theatre of commerce”, and it is under the foreign Admiralty Maritime Jurisdiction, the international “Law of the Sea”. On the contrary, you are born into your own sovereign Estate of body, mind, and soul. As a sentient man or woman you live within the sovereign Common Law Jurisdiction, the national “Law of the Land”.
Is there admiralty law in Switzerland?
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IRS audits violate the nonaggression principle!
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Great cartoon
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LOL this! FR, like damn all your monopoly on money and violence, this passage in this book says otherwise, wtf bro this isnt' some harry potter magic spell shit?
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You hint at a key point that hadn't occurred to me: if this is correct and practicable, why are the rich people with all their personal lawyers and accountants still paying federal taxes?
We know that they get away with all kinds of stuff, so wouldn't they get away with this?
Although, this also makes me think about all the government officials who turn out to have not been paying taxes. Maybe they do know this stuff and it does work, but they want to keep it quiet.
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I say this over and over again. The state is full of incompetent drones. I think these guys doing these tricks and getting away with it are mostly lucky.
I think the wealthy are different. Many actually do get caught breaking "the rules" but what we plebs don't get sometimes is that often the penalty is less than the benefit. They may pay a fine for doing something that resulted in more reward than the fine. I don't see wealthy people getting put in cages. They hire people to help they avoid that. But every once and a while the state makes an example like Wesley Snipes or Martha Stewart.
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One addendum I'd make is that sometimes people like this guy get lucky by drawing a judge who will listen to the technical legal arguments without regard to impact on the regime.
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That's kinda the point for me. I don't care if these people are correct.
- I know that taxes are immoral and that the legality of federal taxes is at best unclear.
- The tradeoffs of not paying taxes is getting thrown in a cage.
- Judges are a mixed bag. You might get lucky. You might not.
- I have zero interest in becoming a martyr for this cause.
- When the state is wrong, it is dangerous to be right.
- The general public will not have your back. They have been mind-controlled into believing taxation is NOT theft. Even those that might be sympathetic to my views in other areas.
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Good luck with citing arcane legal language to IRS
Impossible to defeat IRS
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This guy has beaten the IRS multiple times. The cases are posted on his website.
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How much money has he spent defeating the IRS?
Completely inconsistent logic
It’s one thing to resist as a political or philosophical statement or act of civil disobedience like Thoreau
It’s quite another to resist and say it’s legal, the law is on our side!
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It's not inconsistent if you're right about the law being on your side.
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Big IF
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Considering he's won court cases against the IRS, it might not be that big of an if.
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I share your and @kepford's opinion on this, so my reaction to these people is usually "Cool story, bro". That usually prevents me from getting sucked into an argument about it.
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My mind always goes to Irwin Schiff as well.
It wouldn't surprise me if one guy has a system for legally avoiding taxes, but I also doubt they would allow this to become widespread.
The easiest and safest way to avoid federal taxes is just to move to one of the territories.
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Tax avoidance was a popular topic during the 1960s and 70s.
I wonder if IRS agents watch these videos for a laugh or two.
Probably not because they know the law or how they interpret it is on their side.
Going to court is expensive. Any money gained via tax evasion or avoidance will be spent on accountants and lawyers and legal fees. Plus time spent.
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The legal arguments are not correct. At least not the ones I have heard.
They all fall into 3 categories:
- You don’t understand tax law
- You are not asserting your right not to pay federal income tax
- You lack balls
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