reply on: Fedimint vs Liquid \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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121 sats \ 11 replies \ @TonyGiorgio 16 Jun \ parent \ on: Fedimint vs Liquid bitcoin

I didn’t realize they weren’t public

This is very commonly the case when I ask the question. People assume it's public and that it's more trustworthy as a result, even if they have no idea who it is themselves (because it's not actually public). Only last week did one just get announced as a functionary member (Nym), other than that, they're unknown to the public.

In fedimint's case, you can see the bitcoin locked to the multisig and you can see the outstanding ecash issued. Fedimint can be ran by anyone, so the trust assumptions can go from none to very great (depending on who is the federation in relation to the user, it could be family), and that's better than Liquid unless you're related to adam back. It also has an open gateway structure and everyone is allowed to withdraw out, which is better than Liquid which only partners can withdraw from the federation.

So yes, I believe fedimint is better than liquid in every possible way.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 17 Jun

Have you used Liquid?

Why do you hate Adam Back?

Fedimint is better in every possible way because I am unbiased

21 sats \ 8 replies \ @john_doe 17 Jun

If the Fedimint is run in solo mode you could be rug pulled as well. In the case of Liquid there are quite a few ways to peg out. Through Boltz, BTSE, Sideswap and others. In this case to me Liquid feels less risky. By using Fedi I didn't see anyway to verify by myself how many guardians there are (it could be a limitation of the application they provide and/or my misconception as well).

52 sats \ 3 replies \ @RedRadish688 OP 17 Jun

In the case of Liquid there are quite a few ways to peg out. Through Boltz, BTSE, Sideswap and others. In this case to me Liquid feels less risky.

How does the presence of multliple swap services reduce the risk of Liquid? In the threats I can imagine for Liquid, e.g. them freezing your assets or liquid getting hacked and L-BTC losing its value, you would also not be able to redeem your bitcoin through these services.

31 sats \ 2 replies \ @john_doe 18 Jun

Because it is required that two third of them all decide together to freeze our assets. So the risk is diluted. I assume that by "them" you refer to the watchmen who manage the keys for Bitcoin in the multisig. Personally I would be more worried about assets such as USDt "frozen" than about L-BTC.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @RedRadish688 OP 18 Jun

Because it is required that two third of them all decide together to freeze our assets. So the risk is diluted. I assume that by "them" you refer to the watchmen who manage the keys for Bitcoin in the multisig.

I think we are talking about different things here. What I was saying is, that if two thirds of the federation members decide to freeze your L-BTC, additional swap services will not help you, because in any case you would not be able to send your frozen L-BTC to the swap service.

Personally I would be more worried about assets such as USDt "frozen" than about L-BTC.

With USDt you mean USD-Tether, right? The threshold to asset freezes is certainly higher for a federation like liquid than for tether, but on the other hand if I look at how fast most companies tend to proactively comply when shit hits the fan, I don't think its so much higher either.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 5 Aug

11 out of 15 signatures

42 sats \ 2 replies \ @TonyGiorgio 17 Jun

How do you know liquid isn't actually being ran by just one person?

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @john_doe 18 Jun

I don't know. Maybe by using Wireshark on my Liquid node to vaguely capture traffic and try to vaguely find who might be the block signers if I can capture the right traffic from a peer. That being said if we can minimally agree the information from Coin Telegraph and mempool.space is correct, at least you have proof there was 1 block signer in Japan: https://cointelegraph.com/news/liquid-network-block-production-resumes-following-transaction-processing-issues

At the end of the day for any community there is some trust involved. 1-2 years ago I got rug pulled by Fiatjaf around 80-90 sats in a telegram group. Given that there is at least a good track record for Liquid since 2018 I feel confident we may not be rug pulled. That being said to my friends I recommend them Bitcoin, not Liquid or Fedi.